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#1292 - June 12, 2004 11:00 AM Miscellaneous Articles
webmaster Offline

Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
Contents - this page

1. Epics - Gilgamesh

2. Puranashastras - Itihasas and Puranas

3. Various Issues

4. Quotes by Chinese Scholars

5. Vedic Mahavakyas

6. Top 100 Languages of the World

7. Nasa Image of Sethusamudram Ridge

8. The Renewal of Kalarippayat

9. Afro American Inventors

10. Hindu View on Tsunamis

11. In Praise of India: Top 10 Quotations

12. Yoga, Ahimsa and the Recent Terrorist Attacks

13. Conversions into Hinduism

14. Bharatam

15. Tamil Martial Arts

16. Numbers & Ancient Tamil Academies

17. Judeo-Christian History: A Mini Sketch

18. Mahabharat and Ramayan in Chinese!

19. Apostasy in Islam & Christianity

20. Intelligent Design: The Clincher

21. Jesus and the Gospel of Judas

22. The Teachings of the Quran

23. Some Quotations from the Talmud, Old Testament & Hadiths

24. On the Hadiths and Varnashrama Texts

25. Siddhanta and Vedanta

26. On the Quran and Hadith

27. Your Shiva is our Allah - 1

28. Your Shiva is our Allah - 2

29. Ban the Koran - Konraad Elst

30. Christian Laws from the Old Testament

31. On Karma and Free Will

32. Catholics & Protestants on Religious Exclusivism

33. On Moral Decay & Sexual Decadence

34. Gays & Transexuals

35. The Average Hindu Today

36. Mental Slavery

37. The Hindu Concept of Time

38. On Usage of Tamil in Defeating Foreign Religious Influences

39. Agni Purana

40. Bhagavata Purana




Originally posted in akhandabhararam by sathia.

Epics - Gilgamesh

The first recorded epic is the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh The Epic of
Gilgamesh is from Babylonia, dating from long after the time that
king Gilgamesh was supposed to have ruled. It was based on earlier
Sumerian legends of Gilgamesh. The most complete version of the epic
was preserved in the collection of the 7th century BC Assyrian king

The longest epic of all time is the Tibetan Epic of King Gesar, which
has been collected as a work composed of roughly 120 volumes, with
more than 1 million verses, totalling over 20 million words, making
it 25 times the size of the ancient Greek epic, the Illiad

The Mahabharata, is the great religious, philosophical and
mythological epic of India. It is a keystone text of Hinduism. It is
the second longest literary work in the world (after the Tibetan Epic
of Gesar) and is hailed as not only one of the greatest epics, but
literary accomplishments, of humanity. It is traditionally attributed
to Vyasa, who places himself as one of the characters within the
epic. The title may be translated as "Great India"

Mahabbharata's 100,000 verses make it four times the size of the


[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited June 24, 2007).]

#1293 - July 22, 2004 12:07 AM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang

Prabupada coined the word 'vedic literature' in the 70s, so that a
few 'chosen' puranas, notably the Srimad B, as well as some
itihasas, notably the Mahabharata, and esp. the BG section, gain
credence as 'vedic', and infuse it with vedic ancestry. Such
nomenclature give apparent credence that these puranas and
itihasas are of the 'stature of the vedas', and has vedic blue
blood, which is not!

Puranas and itihasas, no matter how good they are, are 'fairy
tales, fables, legends, stories, plays and part history'. It is
comparable to Shakespeare's Hamlet and Homer's Odessy, as
well as James Clavell's Shogun and Micheal Crichton's Jurassic
Park, all rolled in one - partly true, partly fiction. Puranas were
India's 'bollywood' in the medieval ages, now assumed
respectability - in the late 60s that too. (Before that only travelling
village storytellers, musicians and court jesters quoted itihasas
and puranas, as a matter of factly).

The way to enjoy the puranas and itihasas is to read it and let it
inspire and amuse you - not substitute it for the word of god. It is
not the Hindu shariah. That alone rests with the agamas on
which stands Hinduism as it is today. As well as the vedas. As
well as the words of our saints recorded in the bakti literature.

Prabhupada coined that term 'vedic literature' because Indian
Hindus did not buy the idea that SB and BG are 'vedic', and
scoffed him, but the westerners did not know better, and could
not differentiate Shakespeake from King Arthur, and the Vikings
from Thor and Ceasar, then. But Indian Hindus know better.

But now, several Hindu groups are using the term 'vedic
literature' to gain entry to 'mainstream (agamic) Hinduism', and
automatic legitimacy, and this is causing confusion. A whole two
generations of Hindus now believe that BG is 'vedic truth'!
Imagine that! It is persons who have not read the vedas say that
(Prabhupada, PBUH, forgive me) BG and puranas continues the vedic trend of
line of thinking.

My opinion is that there is an abrupt change in ethos between
the vedas and puranashastras, and caste and dharma is the
central underlying theory of the Ramayana and Mahabharata.

Again, This is not to run down any sect or god, something I will
never do. Vaishnavism rests on the pancharatra and bakti
literature which is tenfold richer than any itihasa or purana, if
anyone cared to investigate.

(Tirukural Verse 66 "Sweet are the sounds of the flute and the
lute," say those who have not heard the prattle of their own
children. ) The same logic applies to those who say the puranas
and itihasas are sweet or true. There are truths, and higher

If anyone bothered to read the Mahabharata FULLY ( including
Prabhupada), it would be apparent that the 'big picture' is that it
is Saivite literature, not Vaishnavite or vedic. But that is not the
point - it is still (Around the World in 80 Days) a fable well told.

Regarding birth and time of entry of the soul into the foetus - this
has not been explained well in the scriptures. Our rishis chose
to be silent on this matter. Only realised souls know this and
always 'chose to maintain silence'. It was never meant to be told.
That has been the Hindu tradition.

Kind Regards.


#1294 - July 23, 2004 12:32 AM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang

We have to be careful on dating of scriptures. Most devout
Hindus attribute a hoary past to their scriptures. Scholars say
that the SB was written between the 10th to the 12th century CE. I
figure that parts of it was passed in oral tradtion from BCE times,
but the bulk was written in the 6th century CE, with additions and
interpolations extending till the 12th century CE. All Hindu
scriptures suffer from this tampering.

Over 420 rishis and women authored the vedic hymns and the
upanishads. The tradition is that pandit families passed it down
orally, therefore the several varying recensions from each family.

Vyasa is credited to have collated them into 4 books and 4
sections. In todays terms he is the publisher (Simon & Schuster
or Penguin Books), not the author. Svetasvara Upanishad says
clearly that Rudra passed the vedas to Brahma who then
passed it on to rishis. Now why shouldn't I, as a devout
practising Hindu, believe the upanishads, rather than something
else! Nowhere else in the vedas is this fact questioned. The
hymns themselves carry the name of the rishis who 'received it'.
Authorship is in question! Receiver-ship is not and neither is

Buddha was a Hindu heretic or apostate. Dont know why Indians
hold him in such esteem. He was a failed rishi. His tradition did
not pass the test of time, well not in India at least - aboriginal
peoples of south east asia did accept it though. He himself
repudiated the vedas and all important things Hinduism stands
for . For instance he believed in rebirth whereas Hindus belief in
reincarnation - big difference. But lets not get into this. His
tradition did not produce any rishis or saints of acclaim after him,
but Hindus can point to ten thousand in the last 2500 years.

The concept of avatara is absent in the vedas, as well as absent
in the other sects of Hinduism, namely saivism and saktism.
They dont believe in avatars. Imagine that, a majority of Hindus
dont believe in that, something that is casually passed on as a
mainstrem idea. Some 12-16th century upanishads tried to
introduce the idea - but it died miserably. No one buys those late
upanishads, no even the vaishnavas. Prabhupada chose to
remain silent on these upanishads. Caitanya did not mention it.

Vaishnavism stands alone in this along with the smarthas. It
took root in the Ramayana and MB, then gathered storm in the
SB with 10 incarnations. Why 10, why not the magical 3 or 7 or
9? Wat's with ten, bro? What about a hundred, huh - I feel
generous tonite! Looking at humanity today, we need a
thousand, wat say you, man!

This ten was written in hindsight in the 10th Century CE, an
ingenios Hindu idea of incorporating other traditions into the fold.
The 9th was supposed to be Mohammed riding a white horse
(some say Caitanya) - different recensions you see, with Shirdi
Sai/Kalki as 10th! Thats camels fart. Celebrating a Hindu
apostate as an incarnation of God takes the cake! Hindu
buffonery at its best.

The established tradition, repeated endlessly, is that only 'souls
that have karmas take birth'. God dont.

Not a single Hindu sampradaya questions reincarnation. Its a
common belief and a glue that binds us.

Regarding the eternal existence or creation of the soul, this is
exactly what makes the so many schools of Hinduism; advaita,
dvaita, etc. An endless debate. As opposed to the BG and SB,
the vedas as well as bakti literature clearly says the Lord created
All, including the souls and all the gods. When they said 'ALL',
they knew what they were saying and writing, and they meant it.
No need to second guess or correct them. Souls were created at
some point of time, with individuality, BUT the essence of the
soul, the primordial matter, that is brahman, was always
existing. Of course, something does not come out of nothing.
This is scientific rationality at its best.

Forgive the tone. I just want to demythify Hinduism.



[This message has been edited by Pathmarajah (edited July 23, 2004).]

#1295 - November 13, 2004 02:13 AM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang
Originally posted by Carl in bharat rakshak - quotes by Chinese and Chinese scholars..

1) Quote Lin Yutang (1895-1976) author of The Wisdom of China and India:

"India was China's teacher in religion and imaginative literature, and the world's teacher in trignometry, quandratic equations, grammar, phonetics, Arabian Nights, animal fables, chess, as well as in philosophy, and that she inspired Boccaccio, Goethe, Herder, Schopenhauer, Emerson, and probably also old Aesop."

"The contact with poets, forest saints and the best wits of the land, the glimpse into the first awakening of Ancient India's mind as it searched, at times childishly and naively, at times with a deep intuition, but at all times earnestly and passionately, for the spiritual truths and the meaning of existence - this experience must be highly stimulating to anyone, particularly because the Hindu culture is so different and therefore so much to offer."

"Not until we see the richness of the Hindu mind and its essential spirituality can we understand India...."

2) Hu Shih, (1891-1962), Chinese philosopher in Republican China. He was ambassador to the U.S. (1938-42) and chancellor of Peking University (1946-4. He said:

"India conquered and dominated China culturally for two thousand years without ever having to send a single soldier across her border."

3) Author Kenneth Ch'en has said:

"Neo-Confucianism was stimulated in its development by a number of Buddhist ideas. Certain features of Taoism, such as its canon and pantheon, was taken over from Buddhism. Works and phrases in the Chinese language owe their origin to terms introduced by Buddhism. Chinese language owe their origin to terms introduced by Buddhism, while in astronomical, calendrical, and medical studies the Chinese benefited from information introduced by Indian Buddhist monks. Finally, and most important of all, the religious life of the Chinese was affected profoundly by the doctrines and practices, pantheon and ceremonies brought in by the Indian religion."

4) "The story of Sun Hou Tzu, the Monkey King, and Hsuan Tsang. It is a vicarious and humorous tale, an adventure story akin to the Hindu epic of Ramayana, and like Ramayana, a moral tale of the finer aspects of human endeavor which come to prevail over those of a less worthy nature. The book ends with a dedication to India: I dedicate this work to Buddha's pure land. May it repay the kindness of patron and preceptor, may it mitigate the sufferings of the lost and damned....' "

(source: Eastern Wisdom - By Michael Jordan p -134-151).

5) Quote Amaury de Reincourt (1918 - ):

" The Chinese travelers' description of life in India... reveals great admiration from all concerned for the remarkable civilization displayed under their eyes."

"India sent missionaries, China sending back pilgrims. It is a striking fact that in all relations between the two civilizations, the Chinese were always the recipient and the Indian the donor."

"Indian influence prevailed over the Chinese, and for evident reasons: an undoubted cultural superiority owing to much greater philosophic and religious insight, and also to a far more flexible script."

6) Quote Henry Rudolph Davies (1865 - ):

ďIt is evident through the medium of those barbarians that China received part of her civilization through India.Ē

7) Kakuzo Okakura, speaking of the missionary activity of Indian Buddhists in China, says that at one time in the single province of Lo-yang there were more than 3,000 Indian monks and 10,000 Indian families to impress their national religion and art on Chinese soil.
(source: The Ideals of the East With Special Reference to the Art of Japan - By Kakuzo Okakura p. 113).

"I see no reason to doubt," comments Arthur Waley in his book, The Way and its Power, "that the 'holy mountain-men' (sheng-hsien) described by Lieh Tzu are Indian rishi; and when we read in Chuang Tzu of certain Taoists who practiced movements very similar to the asanas of Hindu yoga, it is at least a possibility that some knowledge of the yoga technique which these rishi used had also drifted into China."

#1296 - January 13, 2005 11:52 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang
There are four authoritative texts of the Hindus; Vedas, adhering to the message of monism/Advaitam/unitarianism or the strong foundation of monotheism.

Each Veda proclaimed the message of monotheism of first degree
without any obscurity: Rig Veda proclaims Pranjanam Brahma; Yajur Veda
highlights Aham Brahmasmi; Sama Veda announces tatvamasi; and Atharva
Veda confirms Ayammathma Brahma.

Above all, the Rig Veda mantra of eakam sat vipra bahuta vadanti became the basis of the Hindu approach to other faiths.

Dr. C. I. Issac
Head of the PG Department of History, CMS College,
Kottayam, Kerala,

#1297 - February 05, 2005 03:41 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang
Top 100 Languages by Population Last updated: February 1999

Languages of Republic of India, Bharat. National or official languages: Assamese, Bengali, Gujarati, Hindi, Kannada, Kashmiri, Malayalam, Marathi, Oriya, Panjabi, Sanskrit, Sindhi, Tamil, Telugu, Urdu, English (Associate Official). 1,000,000,000 (1999 IMA).

Part of the Ethnologue, 13th Edition, Barbara F. Grimes, Editor.

The population figures in this table refer to first language speakers in all countries. Note that these figures are updated from the 13th Edition of the Ethnologue (1996).

Rank Language Name Primary Country Population

1 CHINESE, MANDARIN [CHN] China 885,000,000
2 SPANISH [SPN] Spain 332,000,000
3 ENGLISH [ENG] United Kingdom 322,000,000
4 BENGALI [BNG] Bangladesh 189,000,000
5 HINDI [HND] India 182,000,000
6 PORTUGUESE [POR] Portugal 170,000,000
7 RUSSIAN [RUS] Russia 170,000,000
8 JAPANESE [JPN] Japan 125,000,000
9 GERMAN, STANDARD [GER] Germany 98,000,000
10 CHINESE, WU [WUU] China 77,175,000
11 JAVANESE [JAN] Indonesia, Java, Bali 75,500,800
12 KOREAN [KKN] Korea, South 75,000,000
13 FRENCH [FRN] France 72,000,000
14 VIETNAMESE [VIE] Viet Nam 67,662,000
15 TELUGU [TCW] India 66,350,000
16 CHINESE, YUE [YUH] China 66,000,000
17 MARATHI [MRT] India 64,783,000
18 TAMIL [TCV] India 63,075,000
19 TURKISH [TRK] Turkey 59,000,000
20 URDU [URD] Pakistan 58,000,000
21 CHINESE, MIN NAN [CFR] China 49,000,000
22 CHINESE, JINYU [CJY] China 45,000,000
23 GUJARATI [GJR] India 44,000,000
24 POLISH [PQL] Poland 44,000,000
25 ARABIC, EGYPTIAN SPOKEN [ARZ] Egypt 42,500,000
26 UKRAINIAN [UKR] Ukraine 41,000,000
27 ITALIAN [ITN] Italy 37,000,000
28 CHINESE, XIANG [HSN] China 36,015,000
29 MALAYALAM [MJS] India 34,022,000
30 CHINESE, HAKKA [HAK] China 34,000,000
31 KANNADA [KJV] India 33,663,000
32 ORIYA [ORY] India 31,000,000
33 PUNJABI, WESTERN [PNB] Pakistan 30,000,000
34 SUNDA [SUO] Indonesia 27,000,000
35 PUNJABI, EASTERN [PNJ] India 26,013,000
36 ROMANIAN [RUM] Romania 26,000,000
37 BHOJPURI [BHJ] India 25,000,000
38 AZERBAIJANI, SOUTH [AZB] Iran 24,364,000
39 FARSI, WESTERN [PES] Iran 24,280,000
40 MAITHILI [MKP] India 24,260,000
41 HAUSA [HUA] Nigeria 24,200,000
42 ARABIC, ALGERIAN SPOKEN [ARQ] Algeria 22,400,000
43 BURMESE [BMS] Myanmar 22,000,000
44 SERBO-CROATIAN [SRC] Yugoslavia 21,000,000
45 CHINESE, GAN [KNN] China 20,580,000
46 AWADHI [AWD] India 20,540,000
47 THAI [THJ] Thailand 20,047,000
48 DUTCH [DUT] Netherlands 20,000,000
49 YORUBA [YOR] Nigeria 20,000,000
50 SINDHI [SND] Pakistan 19,720,000
51 ARABIC, MOROCCAN SPOKEN [ARY] Morocco 19,542,000
52 ARABIC, SAIDI SPOKEN [AEC] Egypt 18,900,000
53 UZBEK, NORTHERN [UZB] Uzbekistan 18,466,000
54 MALAY [MLI] Malaysia, Peninsular 17,600,000
55 AMHARIC [AMH] Ethiopia 17,413,000
56 INDONESIAN [INZ] Indonesia 17,050,000
57 IGBO [IGR] Nigeria 17,000,000
58 TAGALOG [TGL] Philippines 17,000,000
59 NEPALI [NEP] Nepal 16,056,000
60 ARABIC, SUDANESE SPOKEN [APD] Sudan 16,000,000
61 SARAIKI [SKR] Pakistan 15,015,000
62 CEBUANO [CEB] Philippines 15,000,000
64 THAI, NORTHEASTERN [TTS] Thailand 15,000,000
65 ASSAMESE [ASM] India 14,634,000
66 HUNGARIAN [HNG] Hungary 14,500,000
67 CHITTAGONIAN [CIT] Bangladesh 14,000,000
69 MADURA [MHJ] Indonesia, Java, Bali 13,694,000
70 SINHALA [SNH] Sri Lanka 13,220,000
71 HARYANVI [BGC] India 13,000,000
72 MARWARI [MKD] India 12,104,000
73 CZECH [CZC] Czech Republic 12,000,000
74 GREEK [GRK] Greece 12,000,000
75 MAGAHI [MQM] India 12,000,000
76 CHHATTISGARHI [HNE] India 10,985,000
77 DECCAN [DCC] India 10,709,800
78 CHINESE, MIN BEI [MNP] China 10,537,000
79 BELARUSAN [RUW] Belarus 10,200,000
80 ZHUANG, NORTHERN [CCX] China 10,000,000
81 ARABIC, NAJDI SPOKEN [ARS] Saudi Arabia 9,800,000
82 PASHTO, NORTHERN [PBU] Pakistan 9,685,000
83 SOMALI [SOM] Somalia 9,472,000
84 MALAGASY [MEX] Madagascar 9,398,700
85 ARABIC, TUNISIAN SPOKEN [AEB] Tunisia 9,308,000
86 RWANDA [RUA] Rwanda 9,306,800
87 ZULU [ZUU] South Africa 9,142,000
88 BULGARIAN [BLG] Bulgaria 9,000,000
89 SWEDISH [SWD] Sweden 9,000,000
90 LOMBARD [LMO] Italy 8,974,000
91 OROMO, WEST-CENTRAL [GAZ] Ethiopia 8,920,000
92 PASHTO, SOUTHERN [PBT] Afghanistan 8,206,000
93 KAZAKH [KAZ] Kazakhstan 8,000,000
94 ILOCANO [ILO] Philippines 8,000,000
95 TATAR [TTR] Russia 8,000,000
96 FULFULDE, NIGERIAN [FUV] Nigeria 7,611,000
97 ARABIC, SANAANI SPOKEN [AYN] Yemen 7,600,000
98 UYGHUR [UIG] China 7,595,512
99 HAITIAN CREOLE FRENCH [HAT] Haiti 7,372,000
100 AZERBAIJANI, NORTH [AZE] Azerbaijan 7,059,000
101 NAPOLETANO-CALABRESE [NPL] Italy 7,047,400
102 KHMER, CENTRAL [KMR] Cambodia 7,039,200
103 FARSI, EASTERN [PRS] Afghanistan 7,000,000
104 AKAN [TWS] Ghana 7,000,000
105 HILIGAYNON [HIL] Philippines 7,000,000
106 KURMANJI [KUR] Turkey 7,000,000
107 SHONA [SHD] Zimbabwe 7,000,000

#1298 - February 05, 2005 03:45 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang
IOriginally posted October 07, 2002 01:21 PM ††† †††† †† ††

NASA Images Discover Ancient Bridge between India and SriLanka
> (Courtesy : NASA Digital Image Collection)
> _____
> Space images taken by NASA reveal a mysterious ancient bridge in the Palk
> Strait between India and Sri Lanka. The recently discovered bridge
> currently named as Adamīs Bridge is made of chain of shoals, c.18 mi (30
> km) long.
> The bridgeīs unique curvature and composition by age reveals that it is
> man made. The legends as well as Archeological studies reveal that the
> first signs of human inhabitants in Sri Lanka date back to the a primitive
> age, about 17,50,000 years ago and the bridgeīs age is also almost
> equivalent.
> This information is a crucial aspect for an insight into the mysterious
> legend called Ramayana, which was supposed to have taken place in tredha
> yuga (more than 17,00,000 years ago).
> In this epic, there is a mentioning about a bridge, which was built
> between Rameshwaram (India) and Srilankan coast under the supervision of a
> dynamic and invincible figure called Rama who is supposed to be the
> incarnation of the supreme.
> This information may not be of much importance to the archeologists who
> are interested in exploring the origins of man, but it is sure to open the
> spiritual gates of the people of the world to have come to know an ancient
> history linked to the Indian mythology.
> <<20143034.jpg>> <<20003372.jpg>>

#1299 - February 05, 2005 03:51 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang
originally posted September 08, 2001 09:08 AM ††† †††† †† ††

Martial Arts, Indian-Style
The renewal of kalarippayat


Once feared as warriors, kalarippayat experts now work as stunt doubles in movies

Anil Kumar studies the two crouching fighters as they circle each other in the small mud arena, the oil and sweat on their taut bodies darkening the waistbands of their bunched shorts. From his corner, Kumar barks a command and one of the men leaps at the other with his spear, its tip tracing the arc of his lunge through the air. The other man, squatting low, raises a pole above his head and crack! parries the blow. Kumar calls out a second time. Again the first fighter attacks, and the second man nimbly checks him. Then suddenly it's over: the men lay their weapons before Kumar and bow to him, touching the feet of their master.

Kalarippayat is said to be the world's original martial art. More than 2,000 years old, it was developed by warriors of the Cheras kingdom in Kerala. Training followed strict rituals and guidelines. The entrance to the 14 m-by-7 m arena, or kalari, faced east and had a bare earth floor. Fighters took Shiva and Shakti, the god and goddess of power, as their deities. From unarmed kicks and punches, kalarippayat warriors would graduate to sticks, swords, spears and daggers and study the marmasóthe 107 vital spots on the human body where a blow can kill. Training was conducted in secret, the lethal warriors unleashed as a surprise weapon against the enemies of Cheras. Still, Chinese traders learned some of the mysterious body movements and took them home to provide the basis of their own martial arts.

Now, the box-office success of Chinese kung-fu movies has in turn revived kalarippayat. Indian filmmakers, hoping to mimic the high-kicking fights and gravity-defying leaps in Jet Li's Romeo Must Die and Ang Lee's Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, are hiring kalarippayat fighters and teachers like Kumar as stuntmen. They're even making sure Bollywood stars have basic training. "Even five years ago, Kerala martial arts had nearly died out," says Kumar, who with his two brothers runs C.V.N. Kalari Sangham in Calicut, among the best known schools in the country. "Now suddenly it is popular again and it's all because of these films." This time around, there are no plans to keep kalarippayat under wraps.

#1300 - March 23, 2005 04:39 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang
Afro-Americans' Inventions without which the world would not be the same.


A very humorous and revealing story is told
about a group of white
people who were fed up with African Americans,
so they joined together and wished themselves
away. They passed through a deep dark tunnel
and emerged
in sort of a twilight zone where there is an
America without black people.

At first these white people breathed a
sigh of relief. At last, they said,
No more crime, drugs, violence and
welfare. All of the blacks have gone!
Then suddenly, reality set in.
not America at all-only a barren land.

1. There are very few crops that have
flourished because the nation was
built on a slave-supported system.

2. There are no cities with tall
skyscrapers because Alexander
Mils, a black man,
invented the elevator, and without
it, one finds great difficulty reaching higher floors.

3. There are few if any cars because
Richard Spikes, a black man,
invented the automatic gearshift,
Joseph Gambol, also black, invented the
Super Charge System for Internal
Combustion Engines, and Garrett A.
Morgan, a black man, invented
the traffic signals.

4. Furthermore, one could not use
the rapid transit system because its
precursor was the electric trolley,
which was invented by another black
man, Albert R. Robinson.

5. Even if there were streets on
which cars and a rapid transit system
could operate, they were cluttered
with paper because an African American,
Charles Brooks, invented the street sweeper.

6. There were few if any newspapers,
magazines and books because John
Love invented the pencil sharpener,
William Purveys invented the fountain
pen, and Lee Barrage invented the
Type Writing Machine and W. A. Love
invented the Advanced Printing Press.
They were all, you guessed it, Black.

7. Even if Americans could write their
letters, articles and books, they would
not have been transported by mail
because William Barry invented the
Postmarking and Canceling Machine,
William Purveys invented the Hand
Stamp and Philip Downing invented the Letter Drop.

8. The lawns were brown and wilted
because Joseph Smith invented
the Lawn Sprinkler and
John Burr the Lawn Mower.

9. When they entered their homes,
they found them to be poorly
ventilated and poorly heated.
You see, Frederick Jones invented
the Air Conditioner
and Alice Parker the Heating Furnace.
Their homes were also dim. But of course,
Lewis Later invented the Electric Lamp,
Michael Harvey invented
the lantern and Granville T. Woods
invented the Automatic Cut off Switch.
Their homes were also filthy because
Thomas W. Steward invented the
Mop and Lloyd P. Ray the Dust Pan.

10. Their children met them at the
door-barefooted, shabby, motley and
unkempt. But what could one expect?
Jan E. Matzelinger invented the
Shoe Lasting Machine, Walter Sammons!
invented the Comb, Sarah Boone
invented the Ironing Board and
George T. Samon invented the Clothes Dryer.

11. Finally, they were resigned to
at least have dinner amidst all of
this turmoil. But here again, the
food had spoiled because another Black Man,
John Standard invented the refrigerator.

Now, isn't that something? What
would this country be like without
the contributions of Blacks, as African-Americans?

Martin Luther King, Jr. said,
"by the time we leave for work,
have depended on the inventions
from the minds of Blacks." Black history
includes more than just slavery,
Frederick Douglass, Martin Luther King,
Jr., Malcolm X, and Marcus Garvey & W.E.B. Dubois.

A Few Black Inventors from the 1800's to 2000

[This message has been edited by Pathmarajah (edited July 19, 2008).]

#1301 - April 04, 2005 04:56 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang
Hindu View on Tsunamis

Six Hindu principles are involved here in
explaining the tsunami and natural disasters:

1. that nature is alive with inherent spirit beings, who play a part
in evolving the physical world, and periodic readjustments are to be

2. that in the ultimate analysis, in the highest macro Hindu view,
not an atom moves, not a blade of grass sways, but by the will of
god. He is the only doer. There is no other.

3. karma - not a single thing can happen to us if its not our karma.
We were therefore born exactly to experience this tsunami, either as
victims or as non-victims,

4. there is no instrinsic evil in the world - all that happens is for
the ultimate good. Death is renewal. Death is birth in the antarloka.

5. loss, destitution, loneliness, fear of the unknown and the future,
uncertainty - these are the very factors that instil humility, soul
searching, compassion, understanding, acceptance, forbearance,
sharing and giving without reward - all godly qualities, the very
nature of the soul exposed, shattering the bonds that fetters the
soul. There are exactly what is to be welcomed, and why we are here

6. Gods dont get angry - they have no emotions, and they cannot do
one thing that is not born out of love.

Knowing this Hindu seers offered flowers to the rising tsunami, palms
together, in reverance and thanksgiving to the towering wall of
water, a linga, and seeing this too as gods blessing, .

Tamil aphorisms:
1. Oru pollapum ellai - there is no evil at all
2. Naam ariyom - we will never know (the reasons and intricacies of
god and world)
3. Eppolutho mudintha kaariyam - it was done(decided)long ago,

The world and all the souls have already evolved, achieved moksha,
merged with the Lord and mahapralaya has already taken place. Only
now we are seeing these 'already happened events' slowly unfolding.



#1302 - August 15, 2005 12:58 AM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
webmaster Offline

Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
In Praise of India: Top 10 Quotations

From Subhamoy Das,

1. Will Durant, American historian: 
"India was the motherland of our race, and Sanskrit the mother of Europe's languages: she was the mother of our philosophy; mother, through the Arabs, of much of our mathematics; mother, through the Buddha, of the ideals embodied in Christianity; mother, through the village community, of self-government and democracy. Mother India is in many ways the mother of us all".

2. Mark Twain, American author: 
"India is, the cradle of the human race, the birthplace of human speech, the mother of history, the grandmother of legend, and the great grand mother of tradition. our most valuable and most instructive materials in the history of man are treasured up in India only."

3. Albert Einstein, American scientist: 
"We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made."

4. Max Mueller, German scholar: 
If I were asked under what sky the human mind has most fully developed some of its choicest gifts, has most deeply pondered on the greatest problems of life, and has found solutions, I should point to India.

5. Romain Rolland, French scholar: 
"If there is one place on the face of earth where all the dreams of living men have found a home from the very earliest days when man began the dream of existence, it is India."

6. Hu Shih, former Ambassador of China to USA: 
"India conquered and dominated China culturally for 20 centuries without ever having to send a single soldier across her border."

7. Mark Twain:
"So far as I am able to judge, nothing has been left undone, either by man or nature, to make India the most extraordinary country that the sun visits on his rounds. Nothing seems to have been forgotten, nothing overlooked."

8. Keith Bellows, VP - National Geographic Society : 
"There are some parts of the world that, once visited, get into your heart and won’t go. For me, India is such a place. When I first visited, I was stunned by the richness of the land, by its lush beauty and exotic architecture, by its ability to overload the senses with the pure, concentrated intensity of its colors, smells, tastes, and sounds... I had been seeing the world in black & white and, when brought face-to-face with India, experienced everything re-rendered in brilliant technicolor."

9. Mark Twain:
"India has two million gods, and worships them all. In religion all other countries are paupers; India is the only millionaire."

10. A Rough Guide to India:
"It is impossible not to be astonished by India. Nowhere on Earth does humanity present itself in such a dizzying, creative burst of cultures and religions, races and tongues. Enriched by successive waves of migration and marauders from distant lands, every one of them left an indelible imprint which was absorbed into the Indian way of life. Every aspect of the country presents itself on a massive, exaggerated scale, worthy in comparison only to the superlative mountains that overshadow it. It is this variety which provides a breathtaking ensemble for experiences that is uniquely Indian. Perhaps the only thing more difficult than to be indifferent to India would be to describe or understand India completely. There are perhaps very few nations in the world with the enormous variety that India has to offer. Modern day India represents the largest democracy in the world with a seamless picture of unity in diversity unparalleled anywhere else."

#1303 - September 04, 2005 06:52 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
webmaster Offline

Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
Yoga, Ahimsa and the Recent Terrorist Attacks

By David Frawley (Vamadeva Shastri)

Ahimsa in the Yoga Tradition

The Yoga tradition emphasizes the principle of ahimsa or non-
violence for its ideal way of action in the world. Therefore, we
might assume that the yogic response to the terrorist attack on
America would not involve any violent action against the terrorists.
However, a deeper examination of the Yoga tradition, which has
several teachings about political and military situations, shows
that this might not be the case. The Yoga tradition can under
certain circumstances recommend a violent response in order to
prevent greater harm from occurring. This is like a surgeon removing
a harmful tumor so that it does not grow and damage the whole body.

Many people in the Yoga tradition look to the non-violence of
Mahatma Gandhi, which was applied against the British, as the
appropriate yogic response to the current situation. They don't
realize that perhaps even greater yogis, like Sri Aurobindo, who
headed the Indian independence movement before Gandhi, felt that
Gandhian non-violence was too weak a strategy. He supported the
allied military action both in World War II and during the Korean
War. One is also reminded of the situation of Kashmir in 1947 in
which Gandhi, though reluctantly, approved of bringing in the Indian
army to deal with bands of brigands or terrorists who were
plundering the area. In this regard, the Yoga tradition recognizes a
warrior or Kshatriya path that did involve military training. So let
us examine this difficult question further.

Ahimsa literally means "non-harming". It refers to an attitude that
we should wish no harm to any creature, even to those attacking us.
But ahimsa is not simply a passive strategy. It has an active side.
It entails reducing the amount of harm that is going on in the
world, which requires effort or even struggle.

Ahimsa does not simply mean "non-violence" as a physical action, nor
is it not necessarily opposed to the use of violence in order to
prevent harm from happening. In addition, ahimsa must be applied
with courage and fearlessness, in order to expose and eradicate
evil. It is not an attitude of tolerating or excusing evil. It is
not a form of appeasement in which one lets bullies get away with
their action or which rewards violent action by surrendering to its
perpetrators in order to prevent them from causing more harm.

The Path of the Warrior

The Bhagavad-Gita, which teaches about the spiritual aspect of yoga
in great detail, was taught on the battlefield, during a civil war.
While some will say that this outer battlefield is a metaphor for an
inner struggle, which is true, that an outer battle was involved is
clear from many historical records from ancient India. Krishna, the
great yoga teacher, encouraged his disciple Arjuna, who was a great
warrior, to fight, though Arjuna was reluctant and wanted to follow
a way of non-violence instead. Why did Krishna encourage Arjuna to

There are two main types of ahimsa in the Yoga tradition. The first
is ahimsa as a spiritual principle, that followed by monks, yogis
and sadhus, which involves non-violence on all levels. The second is
ahimsa as a political principle, the ahimsa of the warrior or the
Kshatriya, that is followed by those who govern and protect society,
which allows the use of violence to counter evil forces in the
world, including to protect spiritual people, who often cannot
defend themselves and become easy targets for worldly people.
Krishna taught this Kshatriya ahimsa to Arjuna for the benefit of
future generations. Sages before Krishna also taught this, like
Vishvamitra who taught Rama and Lakshmana to destroy the evil forces
that were persecuting spiritual people, so it is a very old
tradition of India.

Yoga teaches us about the three great qualities of nature, the gunas
of Prakriti, of sattva (harmony), rajas (action and aggression), and
tamas (inertia, ignorance). There are several important laws of the
interrelationship of these gunas. One important law is that sattva
cannot defeat tamas. The quality of sattva being harmony, balance,
meekness and surrender cannot break up the inertia of tamas, which
is deep-seated anger rooted in ignorance, hatred and violence. For
this the application of rajas or action to force change is required.
Sattva or harmony cannot survive unless rajas is used to suppress
tamas, which sees sattva as an unarmed enemy.

To put it more simply: Sattva means peace. Rajas means pain. Tamas
means ignorance. Tamasic people being dull will only respond to
pain. Only pain will bring about change for them. Otherwise they
will continue, like a drug addict, in their destructive way of
life.Sattvic political action like non-violence can work with an
opponent who has a conscience like the British that had mainly a
rajasic mentality. It cannot work against an opponent like Hitler
who had no conscience and had a tamasic (insensitive and ignorant)
nature. Even Gandhi in World War II reduced his civil disobedience
against the British in order to not damage their war effort against
Hitler. In fact, such sattvic methods can be manipulated by a
tamasic enemy for its own end, like how Hitler took the peace
offered to him on Czechoslovakia in 1938 only in order to wage
further war. Given the action of the terrorists on Sept. 11, who
used suicide bombers to kill thousands of innocent people, claiming
to be acting in the name of God (Allah), it is clear that their
nature is tamasic or deeply deluded.

The Kshatriya or warrior path is a common theme elsewhere in the
Mahabharata, from which the Gita comes. The Mahabharata teaches that
the masses of humanity are composed of mainly rajasic (egoistic) and
tamasic (deluded) qualities, which makes them insensitive and
unresponsive to sattvic (spiritual) methods. It states that if a
ruler does not know how to properly apply the danda (rod), the
symbol of punishment, that his subjects will end up "eating one
another". Ahimsa as a spiritual principle should not violate common
sense that requires a social order that has well-defined and fair
laws and punishments to keep disintegrating influences in check.
I am not a Buddhist scholar, but historically Buddhist kingdoms also
defended themselves with the use of force, notably China and Japan,
which had many Buddhist rulers through history. They have their own
traditions of warrior monks, who like Arjuna strive to promote total
non-violence, but will put up a resistance when they have to. We
should note the Dalai Lama approved of India's recent nuclear tests
in 1998 reflecting a similar attitude.

The Balance

However, there are two forms of rajas (aggression), one leading to
sattva (peace), the other leading to tamas (resistance). This means
that the response to terrorism, which is a condition of tamas, must
be done in the right way. The application of force, done wrongly,
can make the situation worse. But some force will be necessary,
including military action.

Afghanistan has a unique geography and a special government support
that allows for the training of terrorists such as can occur nowhere
else in the world. It is imperative that those bases are eliminated.
Yet such force should be applied seeking the greater good of all
countries, not merely promoting one group or country over another.

This is the problem for the United States today. We are ready to
apply force but not always in a progressive or dharmic way. We are
inclined to act without understanding the entire situation. Let us
look at the history of the problem. The US helped unleash Islamic
terrorism as a weapon against the Soviet Union in order to defeat
that "evil empire" in the Afghanistan war of the 1979-1989. In this
process we promoted a form of Islamic militance that was different
from and opposed to that of Iran, our other main enemy at the time.
We supported a Sunni form of extremism that was against the Shia
form that Iran followed.

After we left Afghanistan, however, the Islamic militance that we
had fostered continued. In the beginning it mainly targeted our old
enemies from the Cold War era, with militants spreading their sphere
of action to other parts of the Soviet empire and to Kashmir, which
was part of India, an ally of the Soviets in the Cold War era. We
ignored this terrorism until it began to strike our own interests.

In addition, over the last ten years America's leadership as the
world's sole superpower has not always been progressive. We have
opposed agreements on environmental protection and arms reduction.
We have used our dominance to promote our own national and business
interests, not the long term needs of the planet as a whole. We have
continued to spread a sensate consumer culture to the entire world,
to the detriment not only of the natural environment but also
destroying other cultures that might be in the way.

Even our response to the Sept. 11 attacks is a bit hypocritical and
self-serving. Terrorism has been a global problem for decades, and
one that we have sought to profit from in various ways. Only when
terrorism attacked America did we regard it as a global problem, as
if we are the globe. We have aimed at attacking terrorism that has
a "global reach", meaning that is capable of reaching America,
suggesting that we may ignore more local forms of terrorism that
don't affect us. We still have not addressed the greater problem of
global terrorism that we have been involved with for years.

One of the main causes of global terrorism is the massive global
weapons sales and arms industry. The United States is the largest
provider of weapons to the world and many terrorist groups are
fighting with weapons bought from us.

We have also propped up various military and religious dictatorships
in the world that deny human rights and, overtly or covertly,
support terrorism. Two of our major allies the war on terrorism,
Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, are of this type. Saudi is a religious
dictatorship that helped fund the Taliban and has a similar
repressive religious social order. Pakistan is a military
dictatorship that has been the main supplier of arms, training and
fuel for the Taliban. Looking to such governments which have aided
or tolerated terrorists to help defeat terrorism is a highly
questionable strategy.

Global terrorism is also rooted in our dependency on foreign oil,
for which we support such dictatorial regimes, which in turn
reflects our materialistic way of life and environmental pollution
that we are unwilling to curtail. Global terrorism is also connected
to the drug trade, with Afghanistan as the leading supplier of
heroin to the world. Yet it is only because people in the West buy
the drug that it enters the world market. We cannot simply blame the
growers for the problem. Therefore, our claim to be the ethical or
dharmic force on the planet in this issue is not clear. Our ability
to inspire to support is limited.

The Need for a Dharmic Reorientation

While a forceful response to terrorism may be necessary in the short
term, a greater dharmic reorientation of our society is the only
long term solution. This requires not only defeating the terrorists
but adopting a more responsible way of life and returning to a
greater harmony with both nature and the rest of humanity. It means
dealing with the greater global problems that include, not only
terrorism and religious fundamentalism but poverty, lack of
education, overpopulation, destruction of the natural environment.
It requires questioning and changing our materialistic way of life,
in which we consume a disproportionate amount of the global
resources. Otherwise we may lack the ethic power to defeat terrorism
or we may create further problems down the road, even if we win this

This does not mean that as a nation we need to practice self-
flagellation, which might cripple our power of action. We should
rectify our past mistakes so that we don't repeat them. We need to
recognize both our strengths and our weaknesses and adjust them
relative to global concerns. Whether our leaders or our media has
the vision for such an action remains to be seen. Our need for oil
may still blind us to the greater needs of humanity and the planet.

#1304 - November 19, 2005 12:36 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
webmaster Offline

Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
Hindu Conversions

The Hindu Students Council is deeply saddened by the denial of entry to a devout American Hindu into the sacred Lingaraj temple in Orissa, India. (Oct 2005)
Several newspapers have reported that the temple custodians have been accused of denying entry to Pamela K Fleig, who is married to an Indian Hindu, even though she has embraced Hinduism. The custodians allege that no "foreigner" or "Christian" is allowed entry into the temple. This is a myopic view of the issue.
Some ancient temples in India may restrict entry into their sanctum sanctorum ("Garba Griha") to non-Hindus because of possible desecration of the consecrated images ("Murthis") by religious fundamentalists and due to crass activities that include photography, vandalism, obscene behavior or insensitivity to the religious sentiments of the Hindu worshippers at the temple. This reasoning however does not justify the denial of entry to a practicing Hindu just because she is of a different race.
By her own admission, Pamela Fleig became a Hindu at the Arya Samaj in the sacred city of Varanasi in June 2005 with full Vedic rituals. Then she got married to Anil Kumar Yadav of Uttar Pradesh on August 3, 2005 as per to Hindu Marriage act at the court of the Additional District Magistrate and Marriage officer in Varanasi . This event should be proof enough of the fact that Pamela Fleig is a Hindu by her own volition and should be reason enough to accept her in the warm embrace of the growing global Hindu population. As Swami Vivekananda stated, self-declaration remains the basic way to enter the Hindu faith.
Sanatan Hindu Dharma has always been a global religion for ages. While there is no history of Hindu conversions by violence or financial inducements, the Hindu religion has always accepted and assimilated anyone into its fold who has voluntarily accepted the Vedic philosophy and lifestyle. The Vratyastoma ceremony ("vow pronouncement"), dating back to the Tandya Brahmana of the Rig Veda, has been performed for millennia to welcome "outsiders" into the Hindu fold. Devala Smriti, another Hindu scripture, has clear rules for the simple purification of Hindus forcibly converted to other faiths, or of people from other faiths who wish to adopt the Hindu faith.
Historians and archaeologists have recorded the assimilation of millions of invaders into Hindu society over the past 2300 years. Hindu society has invariably converted and absorbed innumerable Macedonian Greeks, Bactrian Greeks, Scythians (Sakas), Huns and Kushans who came to pillage India but were instead won over by the Vedic way of life. In 302 BCE, Helen, the daughter of the Greek general Seleucus Nicator, also embraced the Hindu religion after marrying Emperor Chandragupta in a Vedic marriage. The 2100-year old Heliodorus column in Besnagar (Madhya Pradesh) has Sanskrit inscriptions that commemorate the conversion in 113 BCE of a Greek envoy, Heliodorus who adopted the Vedic religion and the Hindu name 'Vasudeva' in the court of King Kasiputra Bhagabhadra of Vidisha. Furthermore, there are records of the invading Scythian kings who embraced Vedic Hinduism, adopted Sanskrit and took Hindu names like Satyasimha, Rudrasena etc while their Scythian armies merged with the Hindu population.
History shows that Hindu society has always been broadminded and pragmatic. During the 14th century, in southern India, the Vijayanagara kingdom's sage Vidyaranya re-converted the warriors Harihara and Bukka after their forcible conversion to Islam. In 16th century Bengal, Chaitanya Mahaprabhu's egalitarian teachings attracted many former Muslims like Haridas into adopting Hinduism. In the 17 th century, Chattrapati Shivaji, the harbinger of the Hindu resurgence after centuries of tyrannical foreign rule, reconverted Balaji Nimbalkar to Hinduism after the latter's Muslim conversion and gave his daughter's hand in marriage to Nimbalkar, thus showing that a convert to Hinduism was of equal status as any other Hindu. This openness in welcoming tens of thousands of non-Hindus into Hindu Dharma by Shuddhi ceremonies has been demonstrated for over a century by the Arya Samaj, the Masurashram (in Mumbai) and two ashrams in Tamil Nadu -Madurai Aadheenam and Kundrakuddi Aadheenam.
Over the past 150 years, as a direct result of Hindu scriptures, Swamis and Yogis coming to the West, and of many Westerners journeying to India, millions of non-Hindus have become Hindu including Sister Nivedita (the disciple of Swami Vivekananda) and Mother Mira Alfassa (the spiritual successor of Maharishi Aurobindo, in Pondicherry). The world has witnessed an explosive growth in the Americas, Europe, Australia and Africa of the Hindu followers of Swami Vivekananda (Ramakrishna Mission), Swami Chinamayananda (Chinmaya Mission), Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami (Hinduism Today and Himalayan Academy), Srila Prabhupada (ISKCON), Swami Satchidananda (Yogaville), Yogacharya B.K.S.Iyengar, Satya Sai Baba, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar (Art of Living) and Mata Amritanandamayi ('Ammachi'). Even the Pandits of Varanasi have recognized this global Hindu resurgence and have anointed Vamadeva Shastri (Dr. David Frawley), a disciple of Ramana Maharishi, as the world's first Western-born 'Vedacharya'.
Today, there are 80 million Hindus who live outside India's borders, constituting nearly 10% of the global Hindu population. Millions of these non-Indian Hindus are 'seekers' and devotees who have embraced the Vedic faith after years of learning the Vedic scriptures, practicing Yoga, worshipping the Hindu way (Bhakti, Pooja, Havan, Bhajan) and undergoing a formal name change (Namakaran) under the supervision of a Vedic Pandit (priest). These Western-born Hindus follow a pure Sattvik lifestyle shunning alcohol, tobacco, meat, illicit sex and gambling √Ī vices that are ironically becoming increasing fashionable amongst Hindus in India.
Tens of thousands of Indian Muslims and Indian Christians offer worship at Hindu temples like Sabarimala, Mathura, Tirupati and Vaishnodevi. The custodians of these temples are progressive enough to open their arms and welcome all devotees, irrespective of their creed or color. Yet the custodians of the Lingaraj temple persist in making a big issue over the entry of Pamela Fleig and the color of a person's skin as proof of their Hindu-ness.
The Hindu Students Council believes that a simple certificate of conversion, provided by the Arya Samaj or any other Hindu organization, should suffice as proof of Pamela Fleig's Hindu faith and should be accepted by the temple custodians to allow her entry into the temple. HSC also appeals to all Hindu Acharyas, Hindu religious organizations, the Government of India and the Chief Minister of Orissa to take proactive steps to welcome Hindus of all races and nationalities into all the sacred temples of India, the birth-place of our magnificent Sanatan Hindu Dharma.
Yours in Dharma,
Samir Rawal
International President
Hindu Students Council
The Hindu Students Council is an international forum providing opportunities for college students and young professionals to learn about Hindu heritage and culture, fosters awareness of issues affecting Hindus and provides Seva (service) to the community through various activities, events and projects. HSC presents ample opportunities for self-development at the spiritual and professional level via campus study groups, seminars, lectures, workshops, conferences and camps.   With 81 chapters in North America and several inspired chapters around the world, HSC is the largest Hindu youth movement outside of India, with the participation of over 130,000 youth in our activities. For more information, please visit or email us at

#1305 - December 20, 2005 12:44 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang

Bha_ratam Janam is a phrase used by Vis'vamitra Gathina in the Rigveda (vis'vamitrasya raks.ati brahmedam bha_ratam janam 'this mantra of Vis'vamitra will protect the nation of Bharata people' , RV 3.53.12).

Note that Vis'vamitra does NOT use the term, bha_rata janam, but says, bha_ratam janam referring to a collective identification of a larger social, organized grouping consisting of bha_rati_ya with a cultural identity. The unifying cultural identity is provided by the semantics of 'bharata' as a reference to Agni, Agni tended with respect and sacredness by people.
We do not know who are the panca jana_h mentioned in another context.
The phrase 'bha_ratam janam' is clearly a reference to bharatam, that is, bha_rata nation. And, it cannot be taken as a reference to any 'ethnic' group. (Of course, the use of the word 'tribe' in a derogatory sense is an indological invention). In Tamil, Telugu, Kannada and many other bharatiya languages, bharatam is used as a reference to the nation of Bharata.
Bharata is the name of Agni cared for by people. Bha_rata refers to Agni sprung from the bearers of the sacred fire. Bha_rata also refers to the land of Bharata. Thus, the meaning conveyed by the term, bha_ratam should clearly refer to the land where agni is cared for in sacred terms.
The concept of the nation is explicit in the use of the word ra_s.t.ra in Atharvaveda. The use of the phrase bha_ratavars.a should be looked upon as a limited synonym of bha_ratam, the limitation being conveyed by the suffix - vars.a 'region'. The distinction between bha_ratavars.a and bha_ratam can thus be seen as: bha_rata region; and bha_rata nation (cultural identity unified by Agni), respectively.
To say that this phrase is a reference to a tribe of a_rya is an indological myth sought to be perpetrated by motivated bigots, masquerading as Samskr.tam scholars.
The term, bharatiyo in Gujarati means 'caster of metals', a clear association with fire-workers in a smithy or mint.

#1306 - February 15, 2006 01:34 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
webmaster Offline

Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
Thamizhar Martial Arts

By: Alex Doss
Source: TamilCanadian - February 10, 2006

When we think of martial arts, we usually think of China or Japan. Only recently, people have discovered that martial arts had its roots in India √¨somewhere√ģ. The location of what part of India martial arts came from still remains a mystery to a lot of people.

Let us take note that India is a sub-continent with roughly 18 languages and various dialects of certain languages. Each state has its own language and writing script. Moreover, there are three major ethnic groups which are the Indo-Aryans of the Northern part, the Mon-Khmer of the Eastern part, and the Dravidians (Thamizhars) of the Southern part. The Indian sub-continent is more comparable to Europe geographically even though it is a country in itself created by the colonial British for their own economical achievements.

Martial arts have been in existence on the Indian sub-continent for thousands of years practiced by ancient Tamils of Tamil Nadu, Tamil Eelam (Northeast Sri Lanka), Kerala, and the Southern portion of present day Andhra Pradesh. The Malayalam language in Kerala only separated from Tamil as its own language during the 8th century A.D. In Andhra Pradesh, the southern half of that state spoke Tamil, while the northern part spoke Prairie, before the language of Telungu had formed itís own language in that state. In Sri Lanka, the whole island was Tamil up to the 3rd century B.C. before the arrival of a group of exiles from Bengal penetrated the island. They settled in the Southern and Western and Southern parts of the island. Their offspring later became the present day Sinhalese, which their language is a mixture of Tamil, Pali (from Bengal area), and Sanskrit.

The Indian sub-continent was once connected with Madagascar of East Africa and Australia by the sunken Lemurian continent of the Indian Ocean. On the African continent itself are numerous fighting styles some also in forms of dances which resemble various Kung-Fu kicks, leaps, and maneuvers. In Brazil, there is a martial art called Capoeira. It is a fighting style in a form of a dance brought to South America by slaves along with the Yaruba religion of West Africa. These ideas of combat must have crossed from both Africa and Australia through Lemuria to the Indian sub-continent which may have had an influence on the scientific Tamil martial arts thousands of years ago.

Long ago, animal fighting styles were imitated by pre-historic man which was a system for survival. The first weapon used was the stick which was an extension of the arm. Various weapons were later invented during the Stone and Iron Ages. At the turn of the 6th century A.D., martial arts spread from Southern India to China by a Tamil prince turned monk named Daruma Bodhidarma. From China, martial arts have spread to Korea & Japan. In South East Asia martial arts was introduced during the naval expansion of the Chola and Pallava Empires of the Tamil Country between the 2nd and 12th centuries A.D.

In the Tamil country, the earliest martial arts known were Varma Kalai (pressure point attacks √Ī similar to Tai Chi or Dim Mak), Kuttu Varisai (hand to hand combat √Ī similar to Kung Fu and Karate), Malyutham (wrestling), Silambam (staff and weapons fighting √Ī similar to the Filipino arts of Arnis, Kali, and Escrima), and Adithada (kickboxing).
Martial arts can also be seen in the classical dance of Bharatha Natayam. Through its rhythmic movements one can see a close resemblance to the stances, blocks, and strikes in martial arts. There is also a close affiliation to Yoga in the stretching and meditating exercises of almost every fighting art.

#1307 - March 09, 2006 12:42 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
webmaster Offline

Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
Numbers & Ancient Tamil Academies

According to the three Tamil sangams story
contained in the preface to the iRaiyan_Ar kaLaviyal

the 1st Tamil sangam lasted for 4440 years
the 2nd Tamil sangam lasted for 3700 years
the 3rd Tamil sangam lasted for 1850 years


4440 = 120 times 37
3700 = 100 times 37
1850 = 50 times 37

(and the total duration is 270 times 37 = 9990 years)
These 3 numbers are multiples of 37

It seems unlikely that it might be just by chance.
The sequence [4440, 3700, 1850]
must have come from people who were interested in Arithmetics.

One of the "magic" qualities of 37 is it is a factor of numbers with
consecutive digits in three places and their multiples by 10:

111 = 37 X 3
222 = 37 X 6
333 = 37 X 9
444 = 37 X 12
555 = 37 X 15
666 = 37 X 18
777 = 37 X 21
888 = 37 X 24
999 = 37 X 27
1110 = 37 X 30
2220 = 37 X 60
333000 = 37 X 9000
444000000 = 37 X 12000000
...and so on.

666 = 37 X 18

The number is equivalent to that given in the Book of Revelation for
"name" of the Antichrist. This number has perplexed Chritian
numerologists for a good two thousand years.

There is a "triple" quality to the products I listed as all come from
multiples of three multiplied to 37 producing numbers with three
repeating digits starting from the left.

This can easily be connected to the "trigram" of Chinese fame, and to
the triangle (and pyramid), but I won't go on. Just a clue for
possible links.

#1308 - April 14, 2006 05:39 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
webmaster Offline

Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
Judeo-Christian history: A mini sketch
By M.S.N. Menon

Half the humanity is guided by revelations. The rest, by logic and reasoning. One by blind faith, the other by reasoned faith.

All gods began as tribal deities. Yahweh was no exception. He was the warrior God of the Jews (Jehovah to Christians.) He drank human blood! But, over the years, he gave up blood, gave up killing and became an advocate of ahimsa (non-violence). Remarkable transformation? Yes.

The God of Noah was angry and punishing. The God of Job argued much. Micah rejected both the gods. He denounced blood sacrifice and asked the Jews to give it up. "What doth the Lord require of thee but to do justly, to love mercy and to walk humbly with thy God?," he asked.

The God of Jesus was a God of love, compassion and forgiveness, not of terror and blood sacrifice a total contrast. In six centuries, Yahweh will become Allah and arm himself with a sword!

The Bible thus presents a succession of gods, each an improvement upon the previous one, marking an ethical ascent of both God and man to a nobler plane. But the Bible, as Bernard Shaw says, is a "jumble of superstitions and obsolete cosmology". There was nothing in it that was not already in other faiths.

The Jews invented two myths: That only one religion could be true to their religion, and that they were the "chosen people" of God. They paid a heavy price for this hubris.

Christianity and Islam may have given up idolatry of God, but they have taken to the idolatry of books, which is worse. One can neither question what is in the books nor can one go beyond them.

The Romans opposed Christianity for three long centuries until Emperor Constantine made it the official religion of Rome. Till then only slaves were willing to become Christians. But once it became official, Christianity became intolerant of all other faiths, including Judaism. But, had it not been for St Paul, a Jew and scholar of Greek, Christianity would have remained a sect of Judaism. But in the process it was no more Christian; it became Pauline.

Jesus was a man of happy disposition. But the church made Christianity a doleful religion. After St Augustine, life became a "fleeting show on earth", "beauty a snare, pleasure a temptation and abstinence a high virtue." Rejection of life became the summum bonum of life. "If any man come to me and hate not his father and mother, wife and children, brother and sister, yea, and his own life, he cannot be my disciple," announced St Augustine.

Under this great denunciatory impulse, all intellectual curiosity disappeared. Europe entered the Dark Age for almost a millennium. With that bigotry grew. Persecution grew. And brutality reached unheard of limits in human history under the inquisition. One Ennapius writes: "Whoever wore a black dress was invested with tyrannical powers."

With the advent of the second millennium, Christianity was in conflict with Islam, another semitic religion of common ancestry. For four centuries Christian Europe waged a relentless war of attrition against Islam. Had it not been for the crusades, Islam could have overwhelmed Europeóeven Asia. The power of Islam was finally broken by the Mongols.

All these brought about the Reformation. But the discovery of Greece had to wait till the Renaissance. With that, Europe changed forever. It came under Greek and Roman legacy. Renaissance and Reformation marked the disintegration of the Holy Roman Empire and the birth of the new world of Copernicus and Columbus, of Luther and Calvin, of Galileo and Descartes.

But there was little change in the soul of the Christian. It remained in the mould set by Rome. It took part in the African slave trade and in the genocide of the Red Indians. Lord Palmerston called these atrocities the greatest crime in human history. No wonder, Nietzche, the philosopher, said: "The earth is a beautiful place, but it has a pox called man."

This was followed by colonial conquests and colonial plunders. The church was an enthusiastic party to these. But the Age of Reason, which was spawned by the Renaissance, took its own course. It gave a major boost to the scientific advance of man.

Nietzche proclaimed the death of God. In a universe, which had no beginning and end, God cannot have a role, cried the critics. But in a world of economic oppression and despotism, the rulers need the support of religion. As Europe entered the industrial revolution, the Christian God was back in the church. But, now, the communists took up the challenge.

Wealth is a sign of blessing, the capitalists said. If so, the Christian God is indeed cruel. He has kept out half the humanity in poverty and squalor. Where is the Christian soul?

#1309 - September 09, 2006 11:33 AM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
webmaster Offline

Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
Mahabharat and Ramayan in Chinese!

2006-09-08 Published by The Hindu Gathered by Internet Desk - Hindunet

Beijing, Sept 8. (UNI): The Hindu epics Mahabharat and Ramayan are now available in Chinese but there are hardly any takers, primarily because of China being a largely atheist nation. ??The distinction of bringing out the Chinese version has been earned by the Peking University's Center for India Studies that is engaged in research in Hindi, Urdu and Sanskrit. It came into existence in 2003, after being separated from the Institute of South Asian Studies during the then Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee's visit to China. ??"While the Chinese version of Mahabharat was published for the first time this year, the work on the Ramayan was completed in the 70s." Institute chief Dr Jiang Jingkui told visiting media persons from India. ??It took two decades to carry out the work on the Mahabharat in Chinese as the "Writer had to attend to his job, which gave him enough earnings to meet his day-to-day expenses," he added. ??The Institute will introduce works in Bangla and Tamil in the coming years. A Chinese-Hindi dictionary will also appear next year. It already has to its credit Hindi-Chinese phrase book. The Institute is engaged in research on different works including those of Gurudev Rabindranath Tagore. ??Interestingly, the scholars, after joining the Institute, picked up Indian names such as Amit, Deepak, Chetna, Girish, Vishnu, Sameer and Rajata. As the Institute has a shortage of Hindi teachers, most of the scholars - after completion of studies - get absorbed. ??Dr Jiang, however, said there is little scope for Hindi language-related job opportunities. Those who opt for research in Hindi and other Indian languages with the hope of obtaining employment as interpreters in the corporate world in either India or China, take up Hindi journalism ***ignments in China or a job at the Institute itself.

#1310 - October 19, 2006 02:20 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
webmaster Offline

Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
Apostasy in Islam & Christianity

The penalty of death for apostasy is found in the Bible and in the Hadith
which is actually copied from the Bible.

The Quran says the exact opposite, that people can move in and out of
belief and there is absolutely no punishment for apostasy in the Quran.
Refer Quran Surah 4:137."

Now, isn't that a paradox we hear this (death for apostasy) among the
Quran believers and not the Bible believers?

Sura II, 256
There is no compulsion in religion.

Surah Al-Baqara (217)
And whosoever of you turns back from his religion and dies as a disbeliever, then his deeds will be lost in this life and in the Hereafter,"

Surely (as for) those who believe then disbelieve, again believe and again disbelieve, then increase in disbelief, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them in the (right) path 4:137

It looks like here you can believe, disbelieve, believe then disbelieve again. In and out. You must be alive to be able to do all this.

If the apostate must be killed the moment he apostates, how then can he move in and out of belief FOUR TIMES. Additionally no punishment is prescribed for these apostates other than God will not forgive them.

There is no ritual prayer of any sort in the Quran. There is no fasting,
no pilgrimage to anywhere, no mosque. All that came later in the
Hadiths. The Quran only calls for good works.

It is a fact that the Quran does not mention tudung (headscarf), jubah (long men's gown), serban (tirban), veils for women or men.

It is a fact that the hadis mention these same things - in some detail - using language and context almost exactly as written in the Bible. Hence we know that the hadis has copied from the Bible.

If these 'Muslims' are disliked or if these 'muslims' are causing so much havoc in the world, it is because of their beliefs from the hadis, which is taken from the Bible.

The Quran is free and clear of all this.

Here is more.

Muslims are Ancient Jews & Christians

Leviticus 24:16 the apostate blasphemer shall be stoned to death.

Surah 4:137. The Quran says anyone can apostate and no punishment is meted out to him.

Deuteronomy 22:23-24. The adulterer must be stoned to death.

Surah 24:2. The Quran says the adulterer shall be scourged 100 times. And the jury is still out on the word scourge.

Genesis 17:14 and Gen 17:24. Men must circumcise.

Surah 40:64. The Quran says God has made man in the most perfect mold. No circumcision.

Leviticus 25:46 and Lev 22:11. It is alright to take slaves, and a priest can buy slaves.

Lev 12:4. A menstruating woman cannot be allowed into certain places like the sanctuary. A menstruating woman cannot even touch certain 'holy' things.

Deuteronomy 4:16. Statues, carvings and such are an abomination.

Quran 34:12. The Quran says that you can carve statues and keep them in your homes and buildings.

Lev 19:27, 21:5 and 2nd Samuel 10:5. A man must wear a beard.

Exodus 28:3. One must wear a jubah.

What the muslims are upholding and practicing today is mostly taken from the Jewish Torah and the Christian Bible, not the Koran.

So when the Pharisees asked Jesus to uphold the Law to have the woman stoned to death Jesus did not disagree. Jesus said 'OK go ahead and stone her to death'. But he added a proviso 'whichever of you has committed no sin must cast the first stone'.

The woman was saved not because Jesus had changed or annuled the law of stoning to death, but because there were no sinless people around on that day to stone her.

Why did Jesus say that? Because Jesus came to uphold the Law and NOTY to change it. And the Law says the adulterer must be stoned to death, the apostate must be killed. This is the law of the Bible. This Law is NOT found in the Quran. Instead the muslims follow the Bible.

[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited October 26, 2006).]

#1311 - December 07, 2006 04:38 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
webmaster Offline

Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
†Intelligent Design: The Clincher
A butterfly explodes the theory.

The Scientist

At first sight, nothing could seem less intelligent than the design of a flying insect. From an egg laid in or on a food supply, it hatches into a slow-moving eating machine that keeps outgrowing its skin, so that it has to molt every few days. At the moment of molting, it is extremely vulnerable to predators and parasites. Then, inexplicably, it stops moving and grows a hard shell, inside which it completely redesigns its body from square one, to emerge into a thing with wings that launches itself into hundreds of cubic miles of atmosphere in search of a mate, and a food plant, with nothing to guide it but a few stray molecules - pheromones and plant odors - blowing in the wind.

The fact is, however, that this is a very efficient system for spreading the genes of that species around the landscape, and for locating food plants that would take an Earth-bound caterpillar days to find by dint of much hard crawling. The proof is that there are more species of insect than any other cl*** of animal, and their biom*** outweighs the mammals, even though the latter include all the elephants on earth and close to a billion overweight humans as well.

OK, that complicated life cycle seems an intelligent creation in the end. But what can we make of the further complications that led the Large Blue butterfly (Maculinea arion) to extinction in Britain? It entrusts a critical stage in its life cycle to the tender care of a single species of red ant that is particularly finicky about where it nests.

The story goes like this: The Large Blue lays its eggs in the buds of thyme - the culinary herb that grows wild in Europe - in the tight-bud stage. If the butterfly is ready to lay its eggs before the buds appear, or not until after they have started to open, the brood is lost. The eggs hatch after one or two weeks, depending on the weather; warm weather speeds hatching. The young caterpillars feed on thyme flowers for about two weeks during late July and early August, then fall to the ground where they are "adopted" by red ants (Myrmica sabuleti) attracted by a sugary substance secreted from a dorsal gland. The ants carry the caterpillar back to their nest, where it then gorges on ant larvae. While hidden from its own predators, the caterpillar spends 10 months as a predator in the ant nest, and then pupates there. After three weeks pupation the butterfly emerges during the four weeks mid-June to mid-July.

M. sabuleti is a warmth-loving ant that thrives only in short, dry gr***land on hot south-facing slopes that are heavily grazed. If the gr*** grows higher than 3-4 cm and shades the ground, cooling it, this ant dies out and other species of ant take over - ants that are not interested in providing free food and lodging for Large Blue caterpillars. Taller gr*** also crowds out thyme.

What happened in Britain was a constellation of events that conspired to spell disaster for the Large Blue. One was the increased use of chemical fertilizers that promote vigorous gr*** growth, which kills off small wild flowers such as thyme. Then, sheep were pulled off the land by a change in livestock farming. For a few years, rabbits spread and kept the gr*** short in habitats favored by the butterfly, but in the 1950s myxomatosis (a viral disease of rabbits) was introduced and eliminated them. Pastures also were previously burned over, which kept the gr*** short, but this is no longer done.

So here you have an insect that depends for its very existence on a fragile chain of circumstances that is easily broken by bad weather, changes in exposure to grazing due to human intervention and disease, loss of its unique food plant, and loss of its protector ant species. If I were to design such a silly system I'd at least choose the most abundant, hardy species of ant to host my caterpillars, and ensure that they could feed on other plants beside thyme, and at other stages than the bud. To me, the case of the Large Blue is conclusive disproof of the theory of intelligent design.

Jack Woodall is director of the Nucleus for the Investigation of Emerging Infectious Diseases in the Institute of Medical Biochemistry at Brazil's Federal University of Rio de Janeiro.

#1312 - January 02, 2007 01:12 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang
Most Hindus have only a vague notion of the oneness of the spirituality of religions, in what areas of spirituality the different religions converge, and where they diverge. This vagueness leads many to declare simplistically that all religions are the same, or even lead to the same goal. This article has been written for Hindus to be familiarise themselves with this spirituality in christianity as opposed to the Christian religion, which we are wholly uninterested in.

Jesus and the Gospel of Judas
?When I read the Gospel of Judas recently, and saw the documentary where it is shown Jesus is like a simple innocent child, carefree, laughing in ecstatic love (experiencing satchitananada), having visions (transductive perceptions/metaphysical visions) (many of his disciples had visions and dreams too), spending many hours or even whole days all by himself in solitude (tavam/maunam), and saying things like 'sacrifice the man that clothes me', 'each of you have your own star (destiny/god's will), 'For there exists a great and boundless realm', 'for there exists a great invisible spirit that no angel has seen' (satchidananda), "no thought of the heart has ever comprehended that great unseen spirit' (the transcendent parasiva/parabrahman), 'in accordance with the Will of the Spirit' (Destiny/God's Will), 'and the stars that brings matters to completion', 'the Self-Generated' (svayambhu), etc., it is clear that he saw himself as a soul clothed in a physical body, and that as a soul he had exclaimed before 'I and my Father are one', 'the kingdom of God is within you', 'seek (the kingdom) and ye shall find', 'the mansion of god has many rooms' (triloka, and, many realms of knowledge, experiences and bliss), 'your god is within you', etc.

It was clear to me and I exclaimed, 'only a Hindu could have said that', not a Jew or a buddhist. It is clear that both Jesus as well as Judas too were realised souls. The Gospel of Judas which is a short document of seven pages is similar to our own upanishads and compatible with our philosophy. Clearly Jesus was an advaitist. I cannot comment on the other gospels.

Jesus' message was one of love of god, surrender to Him, intense prayers, long hours even days at a time spent in solitude, and selfless service to fellow men. There is no mention of meditation but the long hours and days spent in solitude, in maunam, is meditation. And it appears he believed in predestination and God's Will, and acceptance of all for what it is.

Spirituality can be found it in all cultures even indigeneous ones. However over time many became cloaked with dogma, rituals and superstition, making it even repressive, and like all others Hinduism is no exception. Insofar as the Gospel of Judas and the spirituality of Christ, Hindus should have no problem with that and may initiate interfaith dialogue on this basis. This spirituality of Jesus can be described as Hindu Spirituality 101.

Whereas insofar as all that the established church, christians, bible and jews teach as doctrines and theology, it is far removed from Hindu understandings of spirituality. We have nothing to learn from them as they do not have a clue to spirituality, and far removed from the teachings and practices of Jesus itself. The christian churches do not accept the gospel of judas as authentic christian dogma. That is understandable as the gospel shows this spirituality is furtherest from the official church doctrines.



[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited January 30, 2007).]

#1313 - January 30, 2007 05:36 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
webmaster Offline

Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
These last several months I have been studying islam, dialoguing with islamic
scholars and taking notes. This compilation is from those notes, some of which
are simply cut and paste.

It is very long, and is in two parts. A must read and save for Hindu scholars and
activists so that we can separate the rice from the husk. In one read, the gist
of the Quran and Islam can be known, and one can hold oneself against any mufti.


We live in imaginary worlds we construct, enclaves we build. It can show the
power of fear upon man, and at the same time it can show the indifference of man and the inhabitance of man in its 'imaginary world' and in 'the enclaves he builds'. The mind becomes 'reptilian' in this age of mental insecurities and the brain goes in a 'fight or flight' mode.

But we can move from the level of the 'reptilian mind' to the 'higher mind' by
stimulating it with new concepts or simply enlarging its spheres of knowledge.
Those who are unaware of other cultures may find it difficult to explore
different places because of the lack of understanding or fear. With new
understanding of different cultures we can interact with their peers and learn
to understand why certain people do, act, and feel a certain way. Cross cultural
communication helps us understand different parts of the world and enrich
different parts of the hemispheres.

Nobel-Prize winning research on brain-hemispheric dominance by Roger Sperry and Robert Ornstein attest to the idea of mind expansion through proper care and education of both sides of the brain.

Hemisphere dominance does relate to one's intelligence. Stimulating both sides
of the brain is necessary for proper development of the brain and capability to
function. And what is function? Function is the ability to think rationally and
act rationally. This is a neuroscience approach.

Fear, in this case of the Hindus, descends to a lack of understanding, or even a
wanting to not understand, evasive of other cultures and religions, specifically
Christianity and Islam. This is understandable due to its history of being
enslaved by these iconoclastic faiths.

But this fear is not present with respect to Buddhism and Jainism. On the
contrary Buddhism and Jainism are praised, accorded status as 'a part of
Hinduism', why their founders even exalted as avatars and saints. But that's
because these are 'defeated religions' and evacuated from the subcontinent. It
is easier to be magnanimous and accord dignity to the fallen and the
non-threatening. Whereas Christianity and Islam were undefeated by Hinduism, so the fear and cultural abhorrence remains in the psyche, making us blind.

Fear fills the other hemisphere. With new facets of knowledge, intellectual
positioning and higher mind atmosphere, understanding replaces the fear and
insecurities, leaving no vacuum, and takes the air out of bloated false pride,
the very thing that separates us from god.

Most people, more so the muslims, have a poor understanding of the Quran, marked by stereotyping, and which leads to misunderstanding and strife. As most of the muslims are illiterate, and of the literate only small number can read and understand arabic, I have calculated that less than 6% of muslims have read the Quran. This is important as it is a book based religion. This article is meant to give a proper presentation, clears some of the misconceptions, and much has been taken from the writings and views of muslim scholars.


The Koran is a collection of writings put together many years after the death of
Muhammed during the 1st Caliphate. The Koran's earliest origins can be found in Syro-Aramaic writings which predates Muhammed. However it is not Saudi Arabian Arabic as even the Arabs call it 'Cl***ical Arabic'.

The Quran was supposedly give to Muhammed all at once by God, Allah, but
revealed by the prophet slowly over time. The 6,348 verses of the Quran is
supposedly the revealed word of god through the angel Gabriel.

The Quran says to its believers not to accept anything but the Quran; not any
other scripture, books, or writings of any persons.

Verse 27 of chapter 18 says, "You shall recite what is revealed to you from your
Lord, nothing shall abrogate His words, and you shall not find any other sources
besides it".

6:115 The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. Nothing shall
abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient.

This verse debunks the belief that the Quran must be read alongside various
'interpretations'. God says "do not find any other sources besides it." In other
words no Hadiths, no Sunah, no nothing! All must be rejected. Its the Quran, and the Quran alone with rationality and common sense. In many verses one is told to think and ponder and weigh issues before arriving at a decision, giving
rationality a large place in islam.

We dont know the name of the Prophet who received the Quran. There is no word 'Mohammed' in the Quran. The Quran does mention other Prophets and Messengers in name as in 2:136, 3:84, etc. The 'last Prophet' was never named but he was described as 'the Praised One' - 'Muhammadun' in one verse and 'Muhammadin - He who is Praised' in another. There is another verse that mentions 'Ahmad' which means 'Most Praised'. All are from the root word 'Hamd' meaning 'Praise'.

The Quran accepts all religions. In verses 1-6 of chapter 109, the Quran does
say 'to you your religion and to me my religion'. This means that all religions
are accepted, and everyone should follow their religion without any bickering.

The Quran recognises all saints and messengers of god before the last prophet.
It says God sent prophets to all nation and all races prior to Mohammed.

Muslims believe that since time immemorial God sent down 124,000 Prophets or
Messengers to mankind, but only 25 are mentioned by name in the Quran. Each and every community received a Prophet, sometimes more than one at one time (so there could have been a few Prophets in one community at the same time). There is no community that did not receive a Prophet from God.

Al-Hujuraat 49:13
God created all nations and races and all is to be accepted and respected.

Verse 46, chapter 29 of the Quran says:
"And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best,
except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has
been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our Allah and your Allah is One,
and to Him do we submit."

This is what the Quran says about what is called 'non-Muslims' but what the
Quran calls 'followers of the Book'. And the Quran also says: We believe in that
which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. Since when are those who are not followers of Muhammad considered 'the enemy'? In fact, it says, our Allah and your Allah is One.

Al- Ana'an 6:17 & 18 and Al-Baqarah 2:33 & 2.115
GOD is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient.

65:12 God created seven universes and the same number of earths. The commands flow among them. This is to let you know that God is Omnipotent, and that God is fully aware of all things.

50:16 God is within you.

Al-Baqarah 2:62 "..any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work
righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord.."

52.16 Ye but receive the recompense of your (own) deeds.

The key to reach God is living a righteous life, irrespective of religion. People of all religions can reach god.

AL-Maa'idah 5:11
Anyone (of any religion) who believes in God is a Muslim, irrespective of

2.112, & 31.8
Anyone who believes in god and does good deeds is rewarded by god.

65:11 a messenger who recites to you God's revelations, clearly, to lead those
who believe and work righteousness out of the darkness into the light. Anyone
who believes in God and leads a righteous life, He will admit him into gardens
with flowing streams; they abide therein forever. God will generously reward

Religious freedom in the Quran. It says Allah decides who becomes Muslim and who becomes non-Muslim.

6:110 We control their minds and their hearts. Thus, since their decision is to
disbelieve, we leave them in their transgressions, blundering.

6:111 Even if we sent down the angels to them; even if the dead spoke to them;
even if we summoned every miracle before them; they cannot believe unless God wills it. Indeed, most of them are ignorant'.

Al-Kahf 18:29 and Al-Baqarah 2:256
God gave us the freedom to choose whether to believe in Him or not. Freedom of
beliefs in any religion, or even in atheism.

Al-Kahf: 29
Let him who wishes to believe, do so; and let him who wishes to disbelieve, do so.

Al Baqarah, 2:256
Let there be no compulsion in the religion: Surely the Right Path is clearly
distinct from the crooked path.

Surah An-Nisa', 4:137
"Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe again, then disbelieve, and
then increase in their disbelief - Allah will never forgive them nor guide them
to the path."

The quotation from Surah An-Nisa', 4:137, shown above, seems to imply that
multiple, sequential apostasies are possible. That would not be possible if the
person were executed after the first apostasy.

Al-Ghashiyah: 21- 22
In another verse, Allah Almighty says: "Yours is only the duty to convey the
message; you are not a guardian over them."

The Quran says all believers should read the Quran for themselves as it was
'made easy to read', as well as use their common sense. One should not rely on
experts, or interpretations but to use common sense.

54:17, 22, 32, 40
Indeed, We have made the Reading easy to remember. Is there anyone who wishes to learn?

If your Lord will, he can make all the people on earth believe. He deliberately
blocks out those who defy common sense.

No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah, and He will place doubt (or
obscurity) on those who will not understand.

6.112 & 39.23 - All is God's Will, even the evil that takes place or those who
go astray.

God deliberately blocks His guidance from those who defy their common sense.

Muslims believe that everything that happens in this world is God's will. God
wills it and it happens. If He does not will it then it does not happen. All God
has to do is say `Be' and it shall be."

64:11 - Nothing happens to you except in accordance with God's will. Anyone who believes in God, He will guide his heart. God is fully aware of all things.

God in the Quran and His Will

2.255. Allah. There is no god but He, the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal.
No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on
earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He
knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they comp*** aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory).

Muslims also believe that one's fate or destiny (takdir) has been predetermined.
It has already been decided one's birth, death and marriage, in whatever race,
religion or nation, and one is powerless to change this, whatever you may choose
to do. Therefore all races and religions are to be accepted as God's plan.

Muslims are told to be as committed in upholding the truth. The word is 'Aqeemu Solla - uphold your committments' and NOT pray. Pray is doa, a completely different word altogether.

The Quran only prescribes a correct way of doing things - between man and man, man and his surroundings. It only talks about virtuous life and justice. Do not lie, do not steal, feed the poor and the orphans, do not corrupt, do not
***ociate with those who do not uphold the truth, protect the weak, stand up for
justice at all times, etc. That is all the Quran teaches, and no worship.

The quran is not dogmatic; in more than 25 instances we are told to use our
thinking and rationality, to weigh issues before making a decision. More than
that we are told not to believe anything but verify first.

Surah 17:36
You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have
given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for
using them.

This is what is taught and there can be no blind faith. One must question and
derive satisfactory answers and not accept anything that one cannot verify. We
have all the tools for it. By this verse rationality is given a sweeping
position in the quran.

The Quran is repetitious; the same things are told over and over again, as if to
drive home the point. Two of the main things repeated in the Quran are:

1. belief in God
2. do good deeds

5:8 - "Believers, stand out firmly for God, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others toward you make you swerve to wrong and depart from
justice. Be just: that is next to piety..."

5.9 - To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised
forgiveness and a great reward.

11:117 - Your Lord never destroy any community, while the people are righteous.

63.10 - Give charity before the bounty ends.

In the quran piety and justice are the most important values. This would be the
gist of the teachings of the Quran. The keyword in Islam is Belief in God and
Doing Righteous Deeds.

What the Quran teaches are virtues, justice and rightness;
Do not steal,
Do not lie,
Be kind to your parents,
Be kind to the orphans,
Keep yourself clean,
Be equitabe when you trade,
Avoid accessive profiteering,
Preserve wildlife,
Be a good person and not be a bigot, sectarian and racist.

Somehow the Muslims have forgotten the story about Prophet Muhammad who one day saw a non-Muslim giving a dog a drink and he pointed to this man and told his comrades that that man was going to go to heaven. The Prophet's friends could not understand how a non-Muslim who is giving a drink to an 'unclean' animal could go to heaven and the Prophet explained that he is going to heaven because he showed comp***ion to an animal.

On another occasion, the Prophet's neighbour, a Jew, called his son indoors and
scolded him for eating outside the house because it was the month of Ramadhan
and Muslims were fasting. The Prophet, again, told his wife, that that man is
going to go to heaven.

All that to know about the Messenger is in Quran. He was himself lost before
being inspired, he almost went against GOD's command twice and was warned. He was so sad about his own people that he wanted to committ suicide (18:6), he failed to deliver the Message to his own people, and his name remains unknown till today. We only know him as the Rasul (Messenger).

All this in Hindu terms means its a religion of chariya (aram or dharma) only,
in the most basic way, and there is no kriya (worship). I describe this islam as
'Hinduism for Dummies'.

Who is a muslim?

Al Maa'idah 5:11
Remarks: Anyone who believe in GOD, is a muslim irrespective of religion.

This islam of the Quran is a universal way of life and values and by this
definition all of us are muslims. This islam, is of the quran, the quran alone,
and nothing but the quran with full of reason and rationale.

What is Not in the Quran?

There is absolutely no worship in the Quran (although this is contested by other
scholars). Some say salat (or solat) is prayer but salat is not defined as
prayer anywhere in the Quran! And there are no details of prayer in the Quran!
Or even in the hadith! There is definitely no mention of five times prayer in
the Quran. There is no fasting, no pilgrimage or haj to Mecca. All these cannot
be found in the Quran. If one dont refer the Quran, one is not even talking
about Islam.

The azan (call to prayers) is not from the Quran, the syahadah (reciting the
confession of faith or kalima) is not, the asalamualaikum is not, zakat (tax) is
not, hajj is not, salat is not, circumcision is not, hijab is not, keeping beard
is not, wearing jubah is not, celebrating Eid is not. Not one of these things
most muslims believe and practise is from the Quran.

The Five Pillars of Islam as below commonly known and practised, is not found in
the Quran.
1. pronouncing the confession of faith (shahada or kalima)
2. performing the five daily prayers ( salat )
3. fasting during the month of Ramadan ( saum )
4. paying the alms tax ( zakat )
5. performing, at least once in life, the major pilgrimage to Mecca ( hajj )

There is no wearing of hear scarves for women, jubah (men's long gown), serban
(turban), veils for women, no stoning people to death, no killing apostates, no
circumcision. Furthermore, there are no such things as islamists, islamic
jurisprudence, islamic theology, there is no shariah, no islamic legal system,
no islamic banking & finance, no islamic education, no islamic judicial system,
no islamic universities, etc, in the Al-Qur'an at all. All these have never been
revealed in the Qur'an.

If its not in the Quran then its not islamic. Believers are just supposed to
follow what is in the Quran; nothing more, nothing less.

The Quran categorically respects dogs. Among its verses, not one says you can't
have a dog. Instead, the Quran has the story of a guy who slept in a cave for
300 years, and an angel found him sleeping with his loyal dog. The Quran says
the meat from animals hunted by dogs is halal. What the Quran says is, love all

In the Quran you will not find anything even vaguely resembling religion. No
church, no pastor, deacon, priest, no mosque, no worship, no Muhammad (the name Muhammad is not found in the Quran), nothing. No Arabic culture in the Quran. No Arabic history in the Quran. The Prophet never prayed in any mosque.

The Quran also does not mention avoidance of pigs, of abstaining from pork,
methods of slaughtering animals, payment of zakat, keeping of goatees, having
four wives, contract wives, divorce by uttering triple talaq and worship of the

So where do all these things that is commonly known in Islam and that is
practised today come from? Its comes from the Hadiths and Sunnah, something the Quran forbade! The Quran strictly forbids any other writings. The prophet
Muhammad was enjoined, in very strong words, from issuing any religious
teachings besides the Quran (69:38-48).


The Hadiths are a collection of proverbs, poems, and practices of Mohammed and the Sunnah is essentially a biography of him that were compiled by the believers after his death.

Some Muslims compromise: "If a Hadith agrees with the Quran we will accept it,
and if it contradicts the Quran, we will reject it!" Such premise proves that
these people do not believe God's ***ertions that the Quran is "complete,
perfect and fully detailed." The moment they seek guidance from anything besides the Quran, no matter how 'right' it seems, they fall into Satan's trap (see 63:1). For they have rejected God's word and set up another god besides God (18:57).

The Quran informs us that some enemies of the Prophet, described as "human and jinn devils," will fabricate lies and attribute them to the Prophet (6:112,

This is precisely what happened after the prophet Muhammad's death; Hadith
(oral) and Sunna (actions) were invented and attributed to the Prophet. In truth
they worship Muhammad.

Hadith and Sunna are satanic innovations because they:
[1] defy the divine ***ertions that the Quran is complete, perfect, fully
detailed, and shall be the only source of religious guidance for believers
(6:19, 38, 114 & 45:6-7),
[2] blaspheme against the Prophet and depict him as a vicious tyrant who did not uphold the Quran, and
[3] create false doctrines based on superstition, ignorance, and indefensible
nonsensical traditions.

The prophet Muhammad was enjoined, in very strong words, from issuing any
religious teachings besides the Quran (69:38-48).

So where do the teachings of the Hadiths and Sunna originate from? From the Old Testament, which itself was adapted from the Torah and other Jewish laws!

1st Corinthians. 11 : 6 If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her
hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved
off, she should cover her head.

Lev 24:16 anyone who blasphemes the name of the Lord must be put to death. The entire ***embly must stone him. Whether an alien or native-born, when he
blasphemes the Name, he must be put to death.

Deut 13:5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached
rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.

Deut 13 : 6 - 10 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife
you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and
worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your fathers have known, gods of
the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the
other), do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him
or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first
in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to
death, because he tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

Deuteronomy 20:10-14 - "As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its
people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you,
then all the people inside will serve you in forced labour. But if they refuse
to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the Lord your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for
yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy
the spoils of your enemies that the Lord your God has given you."

Here is more violence from the Bible :

Deut 25 : 7 - 10 "However, if a man does not want to marry his brother's wife,
she shall go to the elders at the town gate and say, "My husband's brother
refuses to carry on his brother's name in Israel. He will not fulfill the duty
of a brother-in-law to me." Then the elders of his town shall summon him and
talk to him. If he persists in saying, "I do not want to marry her," his
brother's widow shall go up to him in the presence of the elders, take off one
of his sandals, spit in his face and say, "This is what is done to the man who
will not build up his brother's family line." That man's line shall be known in
Israel as The Family of the Unsandaled.

Deut 25 : 11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his ***ailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

Wearing headscarves for women is copied from 1st Corinthians. There is none in
the Quran. Stoning adulterers is copied from Leviticus. There is none in the
Quran. Killing apostates is stolen from Leviticus and Deuteronomy. There is none
in the Quran. The worst hadiths are copied from the Bible. Circumcision is from
Gen 17:14, 24, 25 and Exod 4:25, whereas in Surah 40:64 the Quran says God has made man in the most perfect mold. No circumcision or mutilation of the body in any way.

Sharia law includes the following:
ritual purification (wudu), prayers (salah), fasts (sawm and ramadan), charities
(zakat tax), pilgrimage to Mecca (hajj), endowments, laws of inheritance,
marriage, divorce, and child care, food and drinks (including ritual
slaughtering and hunting), penal punishments, judicial matters (including
witnesses and forms of evidence) - but all these are not found in the quran.

The Zoroastrians also believe in the five times a day ritual prayers and
performing ablutions before prayers. The Hadiths may have picked this up from
the Zoroastrians as well as circumnambulating anti clockwise the Kaaba seven
times, or from the Hindus!

The woman cannot marry without the consent of her guardian. If she marries, her husband becomes her new guardian - this law is not found in the Quran. A woman who wishesto be divorced needs the consent of her husband - is not found in the Quran. The penalty for theft is punished by imprisonment or amputation of hands or feet, depending on the number of times it was committed and depending on the item of theft - is not found in the Quran. But its found in the Hadith. Stoning to Death in Islam for adultery, etc is not found in the Quran. But it is found in the Hadith and the Bible.

Today 99% of muslims are actually followers of the Old Testament, whose laws
were adopted in the Hadiths. These muslims are Old Testament Christians, not
followers of the Quran.

Muslims today are completely misguided. Muslim societies today resemble
pre-christ jewish societies. While the christians themselves have mostly given
up the old testament, it is the muslims who follow it diligently, yet claim to
submit to the Quran, which clearly they do not. And this is the source of strife
in the world today.

For the muslims to return to the teachings of the Quran, they have to throw away the Hadiths and Sunnah. Except for two parts mentioned below, he teachings of the Quran are (largely) acceptable to Hindus. It reflects Aram (or dharma) but without worship of god.

Objectionable Teachings in the Quran

There are several chapters in the quran that deals will killing of infidals.

9:123 & 3.28 "murder them and treat them harshly".

This has been explained as necessary at times of war. Infidals are those who do
not believe in God or the Quran, and who are not fair and just, are adharmic.
Disbelievers are supposedly rejectors of justice, and kafir means rejector.

Whatever the explanation, it is unacceptable to us or anyone in this age. All
these chapters in the quran, possibly a quarter of the book needs to be
expunged, like the varnashrama triad texts.

The other objectionable teachings is that Muhammed is the last prophet. If
indeed Muhammed is the last prophet as muslims say, then logically what he gave, the Quran, would have to be the 'last word'. End of chapter!

If not, then of course there is a place for the caliph successors in history and
what they dictated and wrote that came to be called Hadiths and Sunnah. Then of course the quran is not the last word but the Hadiths and Sunnah are. The fact is 99% of muslims believe in the Hadiths and Sunnah and their caliphs and
writers. In other words the muslims themselves do not actually believe in the
prophet as the last one.

It is clear that most muslims are not followers of God as per the Quran but
followers of the prophet, and the Hadith and Sunnah are the holy books, and where the Quran is only sometimes selectively used. It would be truer to describe these people as Mohammedans and their religion as Mohammedanism. This was the term correctly used till the end of the first half of the last century.

"While Koran is personal to every Muslim or believer, Sira (sunah) and Hadith
affect non-believers. Islam as a trilogy is obsessed with what to do with
unbelievers and non-believers. Unlike Hinduism, which says not a word against
non-believers, in fact says that other religions also lead to God, Islam is
harsh on them, and justifies violence against them as sacred. The choice to
non-believers in Islam is: convert or accept dhimmitude. Hence, the explanation
for ... the duality in ethics practiced by Muslims everywhere. A true Muslim is
Dr.Jekyll when in minority, and Mr. Hyde when in majority. "

- Dr. Subramaniam Swamy



More sources in Part 2

[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited February 28, 2007).]

#1314 - January 30, 2007 05:40 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang
Part 2


Here are some selections to show how repressive, hateful, blind, superstitious,
contradictory and ridiculous some of these laws are, yea revolting like our own
Manu Shastras. It also shows that the old jewish laws p***ed on into
christianity and then to islam. Muslims today can be better described as jews
and old testament christians rather than Quranites.

Followers of the word of God as per the Quran are muslims, whereas followers of
the prophet and his actions and practices as in the Hadiths and Sunnah are

From the Jewish Talmud

Yebamoth 98a.
All gentile children are animals.

Sanhedrin 57a
When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a
Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Sanhedrin 58b
If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

Soferim 15, Rule 10
This is the saying of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: Tob shebe goyyim harog ("Even the
best of the gentiles should all be killed").

The Hatanya - the fundamental book of the Habbad movement, which is one of the most important branches of Hasidism-declares that all non-Jews are totally
Satanic creatures "in whom there is nothing absolutely good." Even a non-Jewish
embryo is said to be qualitatively different from a Jewish one.

Rabbi Yaacov Perrin said, "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail."
(NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).

Choschen Ham (156,5 Hagah)
"The Jew is allowed to go to the Akum (Gentile), lead him on, do business with
him, to deceive him and take his money. For the wealth of the Akum is to be
regarded as common property and belongs to the first who can get it."

Baba Kamma 37b
The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their
money to Israel."

Baba Kamma 113a
Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.

Baba Mezia 24a
If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be
returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b).

Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare
a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son
or returns a lost article to a Cuthean..."

Erubin 21b
Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being
boiled in hot excrement in hell.

Abodah Zarah 36b
Gentile women are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b
Gentiles prefer *** with cows.

Gittin 69a
To heal his flesh a Jew should take dust that lies within the shadow of an
outdoor toilet, mix with honey and eat it. (sounds like manu)

Shabbath 41a
The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy way is given. (sounds
like manu).

Yebamoth 63a
States that Adam had ***ual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of

Sanhedrin 55b
A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years "and a day"

Sanhedrin 54b
A Jew may have *** with a child as long as the child is less than nine years

Kethuboth 11b
When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing.

From the Old Testament

Rape of Female Captives (Deuteronomy 21:10-14 NAB)
"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers
them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house. But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb. After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."

Rape and the Spoils of War (Judges 5:30 NAB)
They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for
each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me
in the spoil.

*** Slaves (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of
six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to
foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the
slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her
as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries
her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail
to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may
leave as a free woman without making any payment.

God ***ists Rape and Plunder (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your
midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city
shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into
exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city.

Leviticus 25:46 and Lev 22:11.
It is alright to take slaves, and a priest can buy slaves.

Lev 12:4.
A menstruating woman cannot be allowed into certain places like the sanctuary. A menstruating woman cannot even touch certain 'holy' things. (sounds like manu)

There is no prohibition on keeping of idols or avoidance of menstruating women
in the Quran, but it is found in the Old Testament.

Deuteronomy 4:16.
Statues, carvings and such are an abomination.

Quran 34:12. The Quran says that you can carve statues and keep them in your
homes and buildings.

Lev 19:27, 21:5 and 2nd Samuel 10:5.
A man must wear a beard.

Exodus 28:3. One must wear a jubah (men's long gown).

Upholding the law on adultery
When the Pharisees asked Jesus to uphold the Law to have the woman stoned to
death Jesus did not disagree. Jesus said 'OK go ahead and stone her to death'.
But he added a proviso 'whichever of you has committed no sin must cast the
first stone'.

The woman was saved not because Jesus had changed or annuled the law of stoning to death, but because there were no sinless people around on that day to stone her.

Why did Jesus say that? Because Jesus came to uphold the Law and not to change it. And the Law says the adulterer must be stoned to death, the apostate must be killed. This is the law of the Bible. This Law is not found in the Quran.

From the Hadiths

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 16:
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah: ?While we were returning from a Ghazwa (Holy
Battle) with the Prophet, I started driving my camel fast, as it was a lazy
camel A rider came behind me and speared my camel with a spear he had with him, and then my camel started running as fast as the best camel you may see. Behold!

The rider was the Prophet himself. He said, 'What makes you in such a hurry?" I
replied, I am newly married " He said, "Did you marry a ****** or a matron? I
replied, "A matron." He said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you may play with her and she with you?" When we were about to enter (Medina), the Prophet said, "Wait so that you may enter (Medina) at night so that the lady of unkempt hair may comb her hair and the one whose husband has been absent may shave her pubic region. (sounds like manu??)

Sunaan Abu Dawud: Book 1, Number 0270: ?
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: ?Umarah ibn Ghurab said that his paternal aunt narrated to him that she asked Aisha: What if one of us menstruates and she and her husband have no bed except one? She replied: I relate to you what the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) had done.

One night he entered (upon me) while I was menstruating. He went to the place of his prayer, that is, to the place of prayer reserved (for this purpose) in his
house. He did not return until I felt asleep heavily, and he felt pain from
cold. And he said: Come near me. I said: I am menstruating. He said: Uncover
your thighs. I, therefore, uncovered both of my thighs. Then he put his cheek
and chest on my thighs and I lent upon he until he became warm and slept.

Narrated 'Aisha:
The Prophet used to embrace me during my menses. He also used to put his head out of the mosque while he was in Itikaf, and I would wash it during my menses.

So, what is halal for a man when his woman is having her period? Here is the
Islamic solution:

Sunaan Abu Dawud: Book 1, Number 0212:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Sa'd al-Ansari:
Abdullah asked the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him): What is lawful for me to do with my wife when she is menstruating? He replied: What is above the
waist-wrapper is lawful for you.

The narrator also mentioned (the lawfulness of) eating with a woman in menstruation, and he transmitted the tradition in full.

If one, accidentally, has *** with his menstruating wife (or a woman), then here
too, are the divine solutions. (sounds like manu)

Sunaan Abu Dawud: Book 11, Number 2164:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:
If a man has ***ual intercourse (with menstruating woman) during her bleeding,
he should give one dinar as sadaqah, and if he does so when bleeding has
stopped, he should give half a dinar as sadaqah.

If you have ***ual intercourse with your wife while she is menstruating, then
you must give one dinar or half a dinar in alms...1.0264

Sunaan Abu Dawud: Book 1, Number 0264:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said about a person who had intercourse with his wife while she was menstruating: He must give one dinar or half a dinar in alms.

Sahih Bukhari:Volume 7, Book 62, Number 173:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: ?The Prophet said, "If you enter (your town) at
night (after coming from a journey), do not enter upon your family till the
woman whose husband was absent (from the house) shaves her pubic hair and the
woman with unkempt hair, combs her hair" Allah's Apostle further said, "(O
Jabir!) Seek to have offspring, seek to have offspring!"

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3253:
Rabi' b. Sabra reported that his father went on an expedition with Allah's
Messenger (may peace be upon him) during the Victory of Mecca, and we stayed
there for fifteen days (i. e. for thirteen full days and a day and a night), and
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) permitted us to contract temporary
marriage with women. So I and another person of my tribe went out, and I was
more handsome than he, whereas he was almost ugly. Each one of us had a cloaks.

My cloak was worn out, whereas the cloak of my cousin was quite new. As we
reached the lower or the upper side of Mecca, we came across a young woman like a young smart long-necked she-camel. We said: Is it possible that one of us may contract temporary marriage with you? She said: What will you give me as a dower? Each one of us spread his cloak. She began to cast a glance on both the persons. My companion also looked at her when she was casting a glance at her side and he said: This cloak of his is worn out, whereas my cloak is quite new.

She, however, said twice or thrice: There is no harm in (accepting) this cloak
(the old one). So I contracted temporary marriage with her, and I did not come
out (of this) until Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) declared it

Mu'tah means enjoyment. MU'TAH. Lit. "Usufruct, enjoyment."

A marriage contracted for a limited period, for a certain sum of money. Such
marriages are still legal amongst the Shi'ahs, and exist in Persia (Malcom's
Persia vol.II.p. 591) to the present day, but they are said to be unlawful by
the Sunnis. They were permitted by the Arabian Prophet at Autas, and are
undoubtedly the greatest stain upon the moral legislation but the Sunnis say
that he afterwards prohibited a mu'tah marriage at Khaibar (Vide Mishkat, book
xii. Ch iv. Pt2.).

Sunaan Abu Dawud: Book 11, Number 2044:
Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: ?A man came to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him), and said: My wife does not prevent the hand of a man who touches her. He said: Divorce her. He then said: I am afraid my inner self may covet her. He said: Then enjoy her.

Sunaan Abu Dawud: Book 11, Number 2126:
Narrated Basrah: ?A man from the Ansar called Basrah said: I married a ******
woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found her pregnant. (I mentioned
this to the Prophet). The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: She will get the
dower, for you made her ****** lawful for you. The child will be your slave.
When she has begotten (a child), flog her (according to the version of al-Hasan). The version of Ibn AbusSari has: You people, flog her, or said: inflict hard punishment on him.

"Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt
Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it." Then Muhammad bin Maslama went to Kab and said, "That man (i.e. Muhammad demands Sadaqa (i.e. Zakat) from us, and he has troubled us, and I have come to borrow something from you." On that, Kab said, "By Allah, you will get tired of him!" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Now as we have followed him, we do not want to leave him unless and until we see how his end is going to be. .." Volume 5, Book 59, Number 369, Narrated Jabir bin

Hanbal 6/136,192,213
The Prophet never urinated in a standing position"

Bukhary 4/60,62
The prophet urinated in a standing position.

Bukhary 56/152, Hanbal 3/107,163
"A group from the Ureyneh and Uqayleh tribes came to the prophet and the prophet advised them to drink urine of camels. Later on, when they killed the prophet's shepherd, the prophet seized them, gouged out their eyes, cut their hands and legs, and left them thirsty in the desert."

"The prophet gave permission to kill children and women in war" (Bukhari,
Jihad/146; Abu Dawud 113).

"The earth is carried on a giant bull; when it shakes its head an earthquake
occurs" (Ibni Kathir 2/29; 50/1).

"Leaders have to be from the Quraish tribe" (Bukhary 3/129,183; 4/121; 86/31).

"You shall kill all black dogs; because they are devils" (Hanbal 4/85; 5/54).

"Ibn Omar said the messenger of God ordered us to kill the dogs." (Sahih

"To prove His identity, God opened his legs and showed the prophet His thigh."
(Bukhary 97/24, 10/129 and the comment on the Sura 68.)

"A tribe of monkeys arrested an adulterous monkey and stoned it to death, and I
helped them" (Bukhary 63/27).

"The punishment for cutting the fingers of a woman is to pay her: 10 camels for
one finger, 20 camels for two fingers, 30 camels for three fingers, and 20
(twenty) camels for four fingers" (Hanbel 2/182; Muwatta 43/11). (something
like from Manu)

"The prophet had been bewitched by a Jew, and for several days he did not know
what he was doing" (Bukhari 59/11; 76/47; Hanbel 6/57; 4/367).

"Muhammad possessed ***ual power of 30 men" (Bukhary).

"The prophet said:'Do not write anything from me except the Quran. Whoever
wrote, must destroy it" (Muslim, Zuhd 72; Hanbel 3/12,21,39).

"The prophet ordered Amr Ibn As to write everything that he speaks" (Hanbel

"Omar said: Quran is enough for us, do not write anything from the prophet"
(Bukhary, Jihad 176, Gizya 6, Ilim 49, Marza 17, Megazi 83, Itisam 26; Muslim,
Wasiyya 20,21,22).

"Ubayd Allah Ibn Musa informed us on the authority of Usamah Ibn Zayd, he on the authority of Safwan Ibn Sulaym, he said: The Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, said: Gabriel brought a kettle from which I ate and I was given the power of ***ual intercourse equal to forty men."

Vol. 1, p. 438; cited from Islam As It Sees Itself..., Nehls, p. 39
Abu Hurayra said; the messenger of God said; "If a fly fell in your drink, you
should immerse it completely in the drink, because in one of the wings is the
disease and in the other wing is the healing."

Abu Hurayra said , "It was mentioned at the messenger of God that a man slept
the whole night (did not do his prayer). He said, this man had Satan urinated in
his ears."
(Sahih Moslem & Sahih Bukhary)

Abu Hurayra said, the prophet said; "Yawning is from Satan. If you are about to
yawn, you should try to stop it as much as possible. If you yawn, Satan will
(Sahih Bukhary & Sahih Moslem)

Abu Hurayra said; the prophet said; "If any of you yawn,, then try your best to
stop yawning because Satan will enter your mouth."
(Sahih Bukhari & Sahih Muslim)

Abu Hurayra said the prophet said;
"When someone wakes up from sleep, he/she should clean his/her back of the
throat, (by taking the water in the mouth, gargle with it and bringing it
through the nose) three times, because Satan spends the night in the nasopharynx
(back of the throat).

Abu Hurayra said the prophet said;
"If you hear the crows of the roosters, ask God for some of His provisions,
because the roosters saw an angel. And If you hear the hee-haw of the donkey,
seek refuge in God from Satan, because the donkey saw the Shaytan (Satan).
?(Sahih Moslem, and Sahih Bukhary)

Abu Hurayra said, the prophet said;
"When the call for prayer is made, Satan turns around to leave farting very loud
so that he would not hear the Azan (call for prayer), When Azan is finished
Satan returns back...."
(Sahih Moslem & Sahih Bukhary)

Abu Hurayra said the prophet said;
"If you hear the crows of the roosters, ask God for some of His provisions,
because the roosters saw an angel. And If you hear the hee-haw of the donkey,
seek refuge in God from Satan, because the donkey saw the Satan.
(Sahih Moslem, and Sahih Bukhary)

Abu Hurayra said; the messenger of God said; "If any of you eat, then you should lick your fingers because you do not know in which one is the blessings

Ibn Abbas said; the messenger of God said; " If any of you eat, do not clean
your hand until you lick it first. "

Gaber Ibn Abdullah said; the messenger of God said; " You should lick the plate
and the fingers, because you do not know where is the blessings."
(Sahih Moslem)

Abu Hurayra said, the messenger of God said; "The Children of Israel used to
take a bath looking at each other while they are completely naked, while Moses
used to take his bath by himself alone. They said, why is not Moses taking his
bath with us , May be he has large testicles. One day, Moses went to take a
bath, he put his clothes on a rock. The rock took his clothes and ran away.
Moses ran naked after the rock calling on it to give him his clothes. The
Children of Israel looked at the naked Moses and said, By God , he looks all
right. Moses took his clothes from the rock and kept beating the rock. "
(Sahih Bukhary and Sahih Moslem)

Five practices of Fitra
1. Circumcision; 2. Shaving pubic region; 3. Clipping nails 4. Cutting mustache
short; 5. Removal of arm pit hair. (7.72.777)

There are actually six (6) 'recognised' compilers of Hadith. These are:
1) Imam Bukhari (d. 256/870)
2) Muslim (d. 261/875)
3) Abu Daud (d. 275/888)
4) Tirmidhi (d. 270/883)
5) Ibn Maja (d. 273/886)
6) al-Nasa'i (d. 303/915)

This means they compiled these Hadith between 230 to 300 years after the death
of Prophet Muhammad.

Out of 600,000 Hadith he collected, Imam Bukhari could only verify 7,395 as
authentic but if you exclude the repetitions then it comes to only about 2,762
or thereabouts.

Muslim compiled 300,000 out of which only 4,348 were verified.
Abu Daud had 500,000 and 4,800 were verified.
Tirmidhi had 300,000 and 3,115 were verified.
Ibn Manja 400,000 and 4,000 were verified.
Finally, Nasai'i had 200,000 and 4,321 were verified.

So, all in all, about 1% of the total are verified while 99% are rejected as not
authentic or not verifiable.

Islam is not only and merely what is stated in the Koran. Islam is a trilogy of
Koran,Sunnah and Hadith. This trilogy defines a "true" Muslim or
believer. Therefore those who sing praises of the Koran to prove that Islam is
intrinsically humane, have not read the Sunnah and Hadith. While Koran is a
compilation of revelations of Allah to Mohammed through angel Gabriel, Sunnah is
essentially a biography of Mohammed, while Hadiths are a collection of proverbs,
poems, and practices of Mohammed. Thus Islamic theology as is practised today is the Quran plus what the Prophet said or did.

Contradictions in the Quran

Women in the Quran


Cruelty in the Quran

Intolerance in the Quran

Injustice in the Quran

Sects in Islam

There are 72 sects in islam but only one will go to heaven as the prophet said.
So one has to be careful in choosing the sect. Some of them are;

Ahmediyyah, Nation of Islam , Ansaru Allah , Moors, Warith-deen, Bahaullah,

Shi'ites: 12 Imamite, 7 Imamite, zaidiyya, Alawite, Druze, Baatiniyyah, Boharas,
Dawoodi Boharas, Nusayris, Durze, Agakhaani

Jamaat-e-Islami, Sufism , Deobandism, Tableegi-Jamaat, Bareilwiyat, Naqshabandis
Hizb-ut-tahreer:?Ikhwani, Jihaadis, Qur'‚nites, Qadariyyah, Khawariji,
Jahmiyyah, Ash'ariyyah, Matrudiyyah , Murji'ah, Zaahiri, Takfiris, Habashis,
Mehdavis, Goharshahi


[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited February 28, 2007).]

#1315 - February 25, 2007 12:53 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang
On the Hadiths and Varnashrama Texts

I have been sparing in my comments so as not to ridicule the abrahamic
religions but instead let the arguments and verses speak for itself. Also
I did not mention but hope readers have recognised that the Quran in
its gist is the same as our Kural and Aathicudi, both stressing ethics
and justness.

For the sake of world peace and end to strife, in the same way that the
muslims have to discard the abhorrent hadiths and sunnah, Hindus
have to discard the despicable varnashrama texts - the triad of the
manu shastras, ramayana and mahabharata, and consign it in the
dustbins of history. While these texts remains amidst us, there is no
way we can have peace between Hindus and Muslims.

The quran itself says 'your Siva is our Allah'. They too describe god as
unknowable and cannot be measured, and only He can choose to reveal
Himself to us. So I hope this stops the bickering. Afterall its a quranic
claim, and a long held Hindu ***ertion too. So we have no quarrels
with muslims who follow the word of god as per the quran. As the
'elders' in spirituality, it is incumbent upon Hindus to make the first
move and show the world the way forward. And say to fellow Hindus,
"if there is anything in my home that hurts you in anyway, then let me
remove it."

The sunnis and shias have their own hadiths and thats what divides
these communities to the point they kill each other as in Pakistan, Iraq,
etc. It is genocidal. They recognise that, and realise that for there to be
peace among muslims, all hadiths must be trashed. Thats what it takes.

In the same way, it is the varnashrama shastras that divides Hindu into
caste communities, and there has been a 'staggered genocide' amongst
them all along in history, with 40,000 caste crimes and 6,000 caste
murders each year. The difference is, we kill fellow Hindus _slowly_ over
time. So Hindus should not throw stones at the muslims or portugese
but look within; recognise that they are a genocidal breed themselves
and that the lower castes have been suffering a sedate and protracted
holocaust at their hands for over a millenium.

The varnashrama texts serves the same purpose as the hadiths. These
Varnashrama propagating shastris are the same as the violent Islamists.

Enough arguments and verses have been quoted to take on the Islamist
and whack him everytime he rears his ugly head. Quote these verses to
any muslim and he will have no answer but cower as an murtad apostate,
a kafir/rejector of justice. Likewise our shastris are our rejectors of
justice - kafirs.

Islamic society serves as a useful mirror to Hindus where they can see
their own ugly face but cannot recognise it.

Further, I hope it was clear to readers that the brutality of religions also
lies with the established christianity of the churches, the motherload of
twisting of minds. The spirituality of jesus and judas is a separate matter
which I have written about.



Arul T <arul_thilak@...> wrote:
> Pathma, thank you for an excellent analysis. You have managed to distill out what has escaped many scholars.
> You have done a great service at a time of deepening OT-ization of the world, as amply evidenced by the violence and brutality enveloping the world, playing out - in the real and reel worlds - on an ever-increasing scale and intensity.
> It would serve the purpose of accuracy if the OT (Old Testament) and the NT (New Testament) were differentiated, instead of referring broadly to ďthe bibleĒ, as has happened in a few instances.
> Your following statement (with reference to the Talmud, OT and Hadiths) summarizes it all:
> Here are some selections to show how repressive, hateful, blind, superstitious,
> contradictory and ridiculous some of these laws are, yea revolting like our own
> Manu Shastras. It also shows that the old jewish laws p***ed on into
> christianity and then to islam. Muslims today can be better described as jews and old testament christians rather than Quranites.
> You have, in effect, unfolded yet another canvas against which the Manusmrti (the bible of varnashrama dharma) stands out starkly as the prime source of corruption and debasement of Hinduism.
> To your list of objectionables in the Quran, e.g. calling for the killing of infidels, I would add the emphasis placed on fate or predestination, which flows out of the monistic or non-dualistic principle of holding up Allah or God as the source or cause of all that happens.
> Anbudan

#1316 - March 05, 2007 07:54 AM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang
Siddhanta and Vedanta

And so we have arrived to a momentous point where we juxtapose and
discuss siddhanta and vedanta. No doubt vedanta appears muddling,
and it means many things to many people. The vedanta that Tirumular
and other saints talked about is not the same thing that people mean

Or could it be that vedanta is just a generic umbrella term that gives
respectablity and acceptance to any and every philosophy? Could it be
that there is no such thing as vedanta? (Or everything is vedanta.)

On this basis, in about a year or two I shall try to present a paper to
show that there is no such thing as 'vedanta', that that is no such thing
as 'Vedanta Sutras' or 'Brahma Sutras', that it just surfaced in the last two
hundred years or so, that for a millenium many people from Shankara
down to Sayana, right down to Vivekananda, Aurobindo and others have
(deliberately or otherwise) misunderstood. I will show that in the absence
of vedanta, there is only siddhanta (everything is siddhanta), but its just
that people do not use the term as they are unaware.

I do not mean to leave a cliff-hanger, and I apologise for that, but while
my paper is ready, and has been for fifteen years except for some
touchups, the time is not opportune to present that. To discuss now
would only create a needless uproar and controversy requiring endless
explanations, and invite much ridicule. It would be akin to 'pissing in the
pool' and damaging rather than helpful.

It would be opportune when some Agamas have been published in
English so that the m***es are aware of their religion as Agamism and
not Vedicism or anything else, especially 'vedanta'. And the m***es have
clearly come to understand that whether Saivas, Vaishnavas or Shaktas,
if its Agamism then its Siddhanta ONLY and there is no place for any
other. But without some agamas it would be pointless to proceed from

It would be an opportune time when the Hindus have properly come to
understand that the Brahminists are the Smarthas, and none other,
and the Smarthas the the Brahminists, and none other. That
Brahmanism is Smarthaism, and that proper usage comes into vogue
rather than aimlessly shooting everywhere and blaming all
brahmins unnecessarily. (Non smartha brahmins are not brahminists.)
We need to be precise.

I have not seen so far any writer speak clearly that Brahmanism IS
Smarthaism. Perhaps they are in trepidation in indentifying a whole
sect, a whole institution, a whole sampradaya with a major presence
all over the world today with a rightly reputation as a vanguard of
Hinduism, and which many have come to quite unknowingly come to
***ociate themselves with, and so in deference use ambiguous terms.

In would also be opportune when there has been sufficient economic
growth in India, and there is more widespread affluency, along with the
concomitant social justice. With 9% growth I estimate 25% - 30%
expansion in the economy in two years, counting the black economy.
That would be a m***ive change and is bound to change the m***
psyche of Indians, with many old regional and parochial notions

None of these are new ideas at all. They are old ideas lastly discussed
by Max Harrison but who cared not to explore further, and quietly
dropped by Hindu scholars and indologists. ('Hindu Monism and
Pluralism as Found in the Upanishads and in the Philosophies
Dependent upon Them' by Max Hunter Harrison. Bulletin of the
School of Oriental Studies, University of London, Vol. 7, No. 3 (1934)).

The title itself is frighteningly telling. Why would anyone bother with
'philosophies dependent on them' when Hindus are Agamists which
provides it own specific and clarified philosophy *independent* of the

I may not be fully right in my views on vedanta and siddhanta but I am
certain I won't be far off the mark either. It may be easy to scoff in
indignation right now, but it cannot be scornfully dismissed as I have
already given key ideas in this post that is quite irrefutable.

Everyone is a scholar today. Is there anyone who can define vedanta?

There are no Vedicists today although many ignorantly call themselves
as Vedic Religion, or something like that, which is quite embaressing
for the rest of us all. If there is no vedicism, there is no vedanta.

Sutra - 'thread or string'. These texts form the last stage of Vedic
literature, with verses written in very technical language, by different
writers between 500 and 200 BC. These works developed as a result
of the need to simplify the rites and rituals explained in the Brahmanas.
These concise treatises simplify Vedic teachings on rituals and their
reasons. They also simplify the concepts of customary law. They are
known as the "angas" or limbs of the four Vedas, but are considered
smriti. (smirthi is non revealed shastras and has no standing in
Hinduism just like astrology, etc.) It is NOT shruti.

There are three known groups of text called sutras: Shrautasutras,
Grihyasutras and Dharmasutras, together known as the Kalpa Sutra,
and are considered attached to the Vedas.

Srauta Sutra gives the details of ceremonies to be practiced by priests.
It contains short p***ages of instruction for the performance of the
elaborate rituals described in the Vedas. For example, they explain
how to lay the sacrificial fire, or how to perform Chaturmasya.
(workmen's guild rules) The Griha Sutras deal with domestic sacrifices
and rites to be performed by the householders (personel ethics of
priests). The Dharma Sutras refer to the customary law and practices.

The jyotisha and kalpa sutras are two of the vedangas, but are not
the vedas itself. By ***ociation to the word 'veda' many claim it to be
Vedic. That is nonsense. Followers of kalpa sutras are a cl*** of
*priests* that follow the doctrines of the kalpa sutras and not the
vedas. They are in the same cl*** as astrologers and ayurvedic
physicians - servers of the population.

In later periods the kalpa sutras resurfaced as the Manu shastras;
householder rules and customary law of the *priesthood* now
imposed on the m***es (which nobody bought anyway). From here
it infected the Ramayana and Mahabharata, then the late puranas.

An original simple story-play by the travelling minstrels, 'villupaatu'
(song-mime play): a forlorn prince rescues his equally forlorn
princess from the kidnappers (a story repeated ad nausem till today
in the bollywood and tollywood *****s which is the butt of jokes in
Youtube). A varna framework was given, then peppered with puranic
cosmology and timelines, finally presenting itself as, walla, 'Hindu
Shastra'! The kalpa sutras reincarnated again and again, a
recurrent theme in the itihasa mime-plays!



#1317 - March 06, 2007 12:36 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang
On the Quran and Hadith

There is no ascetism, no renouncing the world, no monasticism, no
prohibition of keeping pictures, icons, idols etc. No nothing. The Quran
does not deal with all this.

We know from his life that he married a mature rich widow, and after
sometime he used to go to the caves, be alone by himself (maunam) and
meditate (dhyanam) for days. Someone taught him that. And he had
clairaudience, where he heard a voice (the Self-God). Those instructions
(benign) were written down. Later he fled to Medina and his writings
there contradicted his earlier writings in Mecca. These are the
objectionable parts - the satanic verses.

These are explained as the 'abrogation' verses that overrules earlier
verses. But who decided that? That is not there in the Quran. On the
contrary it says nothing shall abrogate the Quran, and there shall be no
sources other than the Quran - no Mohammed, no imam, no nobody.
Mohammed is just supposed to deliver a Message, the DHL messenger
boy (rasul), and not to teach or preach or anything. Whether the DHL
boy has a beard, or is a paedophile, etc is of no concern, and shall not
be a source of law of practise. The words of the quran shall speak for

Twice Mohammed was reprimanded harshly for not faithfully recording
the verses as it is. Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses referring to the Al
Najm is some of them. So we don't know how many of the verses are
Mohammed's own concoctions.

Even during his lifetime Mohammed lamented twice that he has failed
in his duty of p***ing the Message to the arabs, and he even tried to
commit suicide over his failures. It was a failed religion from Day One.
And he was a failed prophet.

It was only a matter of time his companions hijacked the religion and
imposed the Hadith and Sunah. Two of his successors were killed, and
so was Mohammed's daughter and son in law, and both grandsons. It
was a murderous regime from them on. On the day Mohammed died,
the religion of the Quran ceased to exist, for all intents and purposes,
and what we have had since then was the religion of the Hadith and
Sunah, all written by the companions, successors, imams and caliphs
that came after Mohammed.

It is successful in the US or anywhere because they always introduce the
fine teachings of the Quran first, which is really altruism, which is quite
acceptable. Only later the Hadith is introduced and the mind enslaved.

Islam has nothing to do with Hinduism or Saiva Siddhanta, except that
both accept all religions. Insofar as Saiva Siddhanta, Islam is an
outer-outer religion (pura pura camayam) - the outermost of it all.

The articles were written to inform Hindus and others so that they are
in the know, as well as to let the muslims know that we know their
religion better than themselves. Whenever we encounter muslims with
their practices, challenge them as to whether it is mentioned or
prohibited by the Quran. If it is not, remind them that if they are not
referring to the Quran, then they are not talking or practising Islam but
something else, some other religion.

And I agree that this 'Hadith and Sunnah' Religion - Mohammedanism is
a dangerous beast.


#1318 - March 19, 2007 12:46 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
webmaster Offline

Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
A discussion with Koenraad Elst.

Your Shiva is our Allah

You carelessly think that I'm a gullible Gandhian Hindu, but read this;

Even in the original article, which you did not read carefully in your
earnestness to diss islam wholesale, I have explained that no matter what
explanations the muslims offer, those verses and chapters that deals with
'infidels' is entirely unacceptable and that probably a third of the Quran has
to be expunged. The entire 'Medina' verses is unacceptable, as opposed to the
earlier 'Mecca' verses. So I have no qualms in saying that there *is* a problem
in the Quran itself. Not only the Hadith and Sunnah but the Medina verses in the
Quran too is unacceptable. Therefore I am saying the Quran too is corrupted.

Apart from the objectionable parts of the quran, I have also stated that the
idea of the 'last prophet' is also not acceptable to us. So I suggest you
reread my articles again.

The 'messenger' shall not stand alongside the words of god in the quran. So
whatever 'Mo' did, or say, is of no relevance, and shall not stand alongside the
quran. Mo does not speak for god. The quran stands alone. Mo's job was to
deliver the Message, and that is all! So we don't care for Mo's evangelisations,
wars, words or his actions. There is no place for Mohammed in *this* islam.

< If Mohammed had accepted all religions, he wouldn't have tried to convert
people, let alone converting them by force, as he did on numerous occasions.>

What Mo did is of no relevance to this islam. We are not interested in what Mo
did or said or his life, and he is no oauthority. We dispense with him once the
'message' has been received. We are only interested in what 'god' said as per
the quran. Muslims are (supposed) to follow only the words of god and not the
words or actions of Mo, or any other. If Mo did not accept other religions, that
is his problem, but that is not the teachings of the quran. I quite clearly
titled the article as 'the teachings of islam' and not that of Mo or anything.

<His whole career, extensively confirmed in the Quran, was a war against the
Pagans, a category which includes the Hindus, as the Muslim conquerors of India
perfectly understood.>

Unbelievers in the Quran means;
1. those who do not believe in the abrahamic reveletions
2. the unjust and wicked.

The war was against 'unbelievers' - people who do not believe in god, and that
excludes all theists, including Hindus. Or rather that is the way that was
supposed to be.

These are the unbelievers:
Do you not notice those who are lying with the deen? They neglect the orphans.
They do not advocate the feeding of the poor. Therefore curses be on those who
are obliged, while heedless of their commitments. They only show off, and they
are averse to charity. (107:1-7)

Believers in the Quran means:

49.13. O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female,
and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye
may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of God is
(he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well
acquainted (with all things).

5:8 - "Believers, stand out firmly for God, as witnesses to fair dealing, and
let not the hatred of others toward you make you swerve to wrong and depart
from?justice. Be just: that is next to piety..."

11:117 - Your Lord never destroy any community, while the people are righteous.

2.3. Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what
We have provided for them;

2.4. And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time,
and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.

2.5. They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will

2.21. O ye people! Adore your Guardian-Lord, who created you and those who came
before you, that ye may have the chance to learn righteousness.

108 We have given you many bounties. In appreciation, you shall serve your Lord
and be charitable. Your enemy will henceforth be the loser.

You can never guide anyone. God is the only one who guides in accordance with
His will. Any charity you give is for your own good. Any charity you give shall
be purely for the sake of God. And any charity you give will be repaid to you
without the least injustice. (2:272)

They ask you about charity. Say, "The charity shall go to parents, relatives,
the orphans, the poor, and those who are on the path. Any righteous deeds you
do, God is fully aware thereof." (2:215)

He who is charitable in the cause of God is like a seed that grows seven ears
with one hundred seeds in each ear. God multiplies the reward many fold for
whomever He wills. God is bounteous, omniscient. (2:262)

Do you know who the rejecters of faith are? They neglect the orphans. They do
not advocate the feeding of the poor. Therefore a curse be on those who pray
ritually, while heedless of their ritual prayers. They only show off. And they
are averse to charity. (107:1-7)

The Reading spells out other examples of good deeds to be observed by those who
are committed to the prescribed way of life from God:

Successful indeed are the believers, who are upright in their commitments
(Solaa-ti-hem) those who avoid vain talk, those who keep it pure, they guard
their chastity except with their wives, and with those who rightfully belong to
them do they have sex without being blamed. (23:1-6)

They are trustworthy when it comes to deposits entrusted to them, or the
promises they make, and they constantly uphold their obligations (Solawa-ti-hem)

In this verse it clearly says that those who avoid vain talk, guard their
chastity and commit themselves to these values as a way of life are the
successful believers. Additionally, they uphold their obligations diligently in
fulfilling what they have promised and they are trustworthy when it comes to
deposits entrusted to them. In other words, the Reading emphasises sincerity and
honesty through deeds.

Therefore 'believers in the Quran means the righteous and just ones. Serve your
lord means do good deeds in life. Taking care of the orphans, feeding the poor
and carrying out charity work can only be fulfilled by the deeds of a committed

<The real Quran is hopelessly "parochial" and quite unwilling to admit any
equality between Pagan/Hindu "idolatry" and the true religion of Allah.>

It is true that the quran does not admit any equality with any religions, but it
does say that each follow their own way. And it does admit that if god had
willed it, all would be muslims. Meaning the existence of all religions is the
will of god and has to be accepted.

11.118. If thy Lord had so willed, He could have made mankind one people: but
they will not cease to dispute.

<It is the Quran itself that refuses to include Shiva and Vishnu in its list,
just as it refuses to include al-Uzza or Manaat or any other Pagan Arab deity.
For Mohammed, those are all "false gods".>

In arabic the word for god is 'allah'. Believe in God, is what the Quran says.
That is all. Your god (allah) is my god (allah), and we worship/believe in the
same god.

Regarding Uzzat, Manat and other gods, keep in mind the satanic verses of Al

<Don't try to be the judge in your own trial. Whether my allegation stands
debunked, is for the readers to decide. And to let them decide, I will quote
the verses that even now you keep on concealing:>

Fine. Let the readers judge the entire chapter.

<"Sura 109. Al-Kafirun (The Rejecters/Unbelievers).
1. Say: O ye that reject faith!
2. I worship not that which ye worship.
3. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
4. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship.
5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6. To you be your way, and to me mine."

>One of the oldest Suras, it explicitates the clean break between Islam and
other religions, between Allah and the Arabian gods; and by extension, between
Allah and Shiva/Vishnu. There can be no common ground or compromise between
Paganism and Islam. At that point, Mohammed was in no position yet to impose
Islam (as soon as he was, he did), but at least at the ideological level, war
between islam and Paganism stands declared.>

You are assuming that pagans here means Hindus. Well they are not. There is no
knowledge of Hindus or Buddhists in the Quran. These pagans were those who
worship the numerous arab gods and do not accept the abrahamic revelations.
Clearly Hindus are believers but with their own 'deen' or way.

This chapter is about 'unbelievers'. Unbelievers are those who worship not god
but wealth, power, greed, and those who perpetrate crimes, inhumaness,
injustice, profiteers the wicked, ill treatment of orphans and women, etc. That
is what most arabs were in those lawless caravan raiding days or rape and
plunder. Those are the unbelievers.

It is a clean break with these people, but *still* gives them the freedom to
choose their path. As a general statement, it means everyone is entitled to go
their own path without compulsion.

17:107 You can believe therein or disbelieve.

Inspite of all these explanations I have clearly mentioned that all references
to kafirs in the Quran would not be acceptable to us Hindus or anyone today!

<But at least Mohammed accepts that others can follow their own way? If this
Sura had stood by itself, that interpretation would be possible. But then,
unfortunately, the rest of the Quran and of Mohammed career took place. When
around the death-bed of Mohammed's Pagan uncle Abu Talib, the Meccans proposed
peaceful coexistence, with the exact same words "to you your way, to us ours",
Mohammed refused and demanded that they convert to Islam, nothing less. As does
the Quran in numerous instances.

Once again, we are not interested in what Mo said or did. Who is Mohammed? What
authority has he got? The quran says there shall be no god, no authority beside
god. So the Hadith and Sunnah is rejected, and so is Mohammed.

<Genuine Shiva worshippers stand condemned as Kafirs anyway, but let's suppose
for the sake of argument that Shiva is accepted as equal with Allah. That would
put you in the same category as Jews and Christians, i.e. people who believe in
Allah but fail in the second and at least equally important criterion for being
a Muslim, viz. believing in Mohammed as Allah's prophet. Which then entails
believing in the Quranic revelation and in the whole edifice of Islamic law
built upon it.>

That is right, it puts Hindus and other religionists in the same category as the
people of the book, all of us who do not accept Mohammed as a prophet. And as
the quran says muslims shall not argue with the people of the book, it goes that
they shall not argue with Hindus too.

> >><"... Anyone who does good deeds is a
> muslim, irrespective of religion, and will be rewarded in heaven,
> which is the finality for a muslim soul (2.112, & 31.8)" ><<

> The key word that you miss, is "good" deeds. If you are a Hindu, you worship
false gods, which is the most evil deed in the Islamic universe. Only if you
drop your false religion, can you be in a position to do good deeds as
Islamically understood. You are totally missing the underlying Islamic
framework and imposing your own sentimental Gandhian-Hindu framework upon the

That would be fair to say and that is the opinion of most common muslims. That
would be correct to say *if* they don't accept that your God is my God, and that
God created all things, all nations and cultures, and He sent prophets to all

<Moreover, your translation is wrong. The verse doesn't say: "Whoever does good
deeds is a Muslim, and will get his reward", but rather: "Whoever does good
deeds and wholly submits (maslama) to Allah, will get his reward...", or in
other words: "Whoever does good deeds and is a Muslim/submitter, will get his
reward." Always and without fail, the Quran divides mankind in two camps, the
Muslims and the rest, and promises wholly different rights to the two in this
world, and a wholly different future (of reward c.q. punishment) in the next.>

Yes the Quran divides mankind into two camps. I have already explained above who
the believers and unbelievers are. The minute one accepts God who is onmiscient,
one is a muslim. BTW I don't do translations, just copy and paste.

> >It is more correct to say that like almost all muslims the taliban have
> grown up steeped in the *Hadith and Sunnah* day in day out. How
> could they be reciting the prayers when its not present in the Quran?<
> It is yet another Hindu line of sweet self-deception to contrast the Quran and
the Hadith. The two are exponents of the same ideology, esp. regarding the
inequality between Muslims and Unbelievers.>

I have been trying to show where all the commonly held beliefs and practices of
muslims originate from; that it originates from the bible and NOT the Quran.
Accept that loudly and clearly.

> Whatever you may be on other points, on this one you are entirely Gandhian,
i.e. full of false self-assuredness about an imposed interpretation of Islam
that wouldn't stand a moment's scrutiny. Like Gandhi, you are imagining a
Hindu-Muslim-bhai-bhai message in the Quran and indulging in that sweet
imagination all while avoiding the simplest reality check.>

Keep in mind the Hindu teachings of 'One God, Many the names' as a centrality
when assessing other religions. No Hindu can deny that the muslim Allah is our
Hindu Shiva. Please understand that religions worship one and the same supreme
god. But our paths to him are different (and we shall not compromise). Looking
from this angle everything makes sense. As for the islamists, as I said before,
there is no place for them today. You may read into that.

> So you are preaching hatred against Muslims all while keeping the explanation
for their misbehaviour, viz. the Quran and their belief in it, outside the range
of criticism. It is the old Guru Golwalkar line: "Mohammed was a great prophet,
the Quran is a great scripture, but the Muslims are great fools." Since you
cannot deny the Muslims' misbehaviour, that only leaves you with the Muslims to
blame. My approach (i.e. Ram Swarup's) is just the opposite: not Muslims are
the problem, but Islam and esp. its core, the Quran. That's a better and more
humane basis for working out the problems. All it takes is to liberate the
Muslims from their superstitious belief in the Quranic revelation, which was but
Mohammed's self-centred hallucination.>

And I feel is that all it takes is to liberate the muslims from the Hadith and
Sunnah. Without that they are 'religionless' and only have a 'deen' or Way of

> To conclude, I am sorry to have used such harsh language against you. Maybe
my poor health makes me less capable now of listening to harmful nonsense
without lapsing into irritation and even anger. At any rate, after 18 years of
observing the Indian religio-political scene and seeing Hindus smash their own
windows, scuttle their own campaigns, and misinform their own people, I have no
more patience with your exercise in self-deception. Even if it had't been
couched in pompous and self-congratulatory language, your plea for a pluralistic
reading of the Quran would remain totally untrue and hence gravely harmful to
anyone who has to deal with the Islam problem in the real world.>

Your knowledge of islam is like that of the common arab, Dr. Elst. Street
knowledge like that of the madrassah extremist, that of the unread. Is is this
kind of knowledge that causes all the problems in the world vis-a-vis islam. By
this you are pitting the Hindus against the muslim, quite unnecessarily.
Henceforth we have to be wary of you. Our arguments is exactly against this kind
of knowledge, that of the Hadith and Sunnah, of the mad arab muslim, and of the
satanic Medina verses of the quran. Today there rises many muslim intellectuals
who expose this view of islam as I expounded.

In your over anxiety to trash all of islam, you have made insinuations upon me
and are not retracting it. I give fair warning that I shall not be kind after



#1319 - March 20, 2007 11:56 AM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
webmaster Offline

Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
A discussion with Koenraad Elst - continued.

Your Shiva is our Allah

Dear Pathma,

So now you are defending an Islam which "expunges" one third of the Quran, the whole of the Sunnah, and the key role of Mohammed.† Even the mullahs whom you claimed as giving their stamp of approval to your whitewash of the Quran, will hesitate to approve of that version of Islam.† The Islam that you are trying to sell, doesn't exist in the mind of even a single Muslim, past or present.

What a great Gandhian you are.† Refusing to see the reality of Islam, and†fondly indulging a fantasy of Islam instead.† I am sorry for disrupting your rapturous fantasy.† I'm quitting.† You just go and keep getting off on that wonderful Islam of your imagination.† Enjoy!

Koenraad Elst


Hang on a minute Koenraad, don't go just yet.

This has been my position on islam right from the beginning, that is, the
quran sans the hadith and sunnah, sans the later Medina abrogation verses.

On the contrary this is the position of many islamic intellectuals including
Aidid Safar, Wafa Sultana, Salman Rushdie, Tasleema Nasreen, Raja Petra
Kamaruddin and many many others. This is a growing group who at last
themselves see the light, that islam is not a religion at all but just a 'deen'.

They have also confirmed that one must use his head at all times as
mentioned in the quran, accept nothing without verifying, and nothing
*includes* the quran itself. Rationality has been given the highest
sweeping place in the quran as I mentioned. The orthodox muslims and
mullahs have no answer for this and all our challenges.

Several muslims have told me that what I say is correct and wish to follow
this path of the 'deen' but hesitate to do so openly due to public pressure.

By intellectual arguments alone we'll shorn islam of the hadith and sunnah,
and place islam back to where it was before he fled to Medina.

Islam that is known and practised today is indeed a monstrosity, the
aborrent religion of the hadith and sunnah, and has to be eliminated,
one way or another. No one has any doubt on this, most of all me.

No doubt there will be a fatwa on me.


#1320 - March 20, 2007 07:44 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
webmaster Offline

Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
In view of the discussions on Your Shiva is our Allah, this article on the Danish Cartoons aftermath gives another related view.

Ban the Koran - Konraad Elst

#1321 - March 21, 2007 03:41 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang
Christian Laws (like Islamic Shariah laws) from the Old Testament of the Bible

Those who do not believe in God must be put to Death
Deut 17 : 2-7
Deut 13 :13-19
Lev 24:16

All who curse their father or mother must be put to Death
Lev 20:9

Adulterer Must be put to Death
Lev 20:10

Gays Must be put to Death
Lev 20:13

Rebellious teenagers must be put to Death
Deut 21

Women Should not speak
1 Corinthians 14
1 Tim 2

Children to be killed
Isaiah 13
Hosea 13
Numbers 31

Those who work on a Saturday must be put to death
Death : Exodus 31:15

#1322 - April 06, 2007 11:31 AM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
webmaster Offline

Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
On Karma and Free Will

On Karma Determinism

The role of 'chance' is something that is being overlooked in most causal thinking, particulary†karma theory.† It is 'chance'†that is at play in, say,†nuclear decay, i.e.†whether and when a specific†atomic nucleus would split is not predictable.††Overall, it's a world that appears to be†a mix of determinism and indeterminism (probability). †

On Free Will & god's Will

VaLLalar's†struggle†over whether he is†himself acting OR†is being made to act finds expression in†words that Dr Loga has rendered in English as follows:†

..... I am not sure whether I really did it. Perhaps it was You who played again like this but making me think that I in fact played acted and so forth . Tell me which is the case.

I think these words are†amenable to interpretation in the light of insights emerging from (neuro)psychology,†etc.

Instead of seeing it as†a struggle between man and God, it may†be regarded as†a struggle†of conscience of a highly sensitive or evolved individual.†Conscience is conditioned by both the conscious and the unconscious.† (Psychopaths are not troubled by conscience.† They are found to be literally missing in conscience!)

As much as we pride ourselves as rational or thinking beings, much of our existence is†auto-piloted by the unconscious.†To that extent, human autonomy or free-will is not even called into play!†

According to some†neuropsychological perspectives,†human autonomy or free-will is†itself†often an illusion because the†unconscious mind acts first (like one's hand reaching out to grab an object) and then the conscious mind constructs an explanation, making one think that the act was consciously caused by oneself.† That is, the 'cause' that is being†consciously attributed is something that happens after the 'effect' of the unconscious (the stretching out of the hand).† It is a case of 'effect' preceding the 'cause'!† An inversion that†is terribly upsetting for traditional thinking on causation.†

On the other hand, even the unconscious mind is not an isolated entity.† Nothing exists in isolation.† There are different degrees of interconnection and interaction with other entities, physical or non-physical.† The embedding 'context' exerts influences on both the conscious and unconscious of the individual.† It is this interactional dynamics, borrowing from insights offered by†network theory, that drives an entity in ways that is NOT consciously willed.†

There are perspectives that were not available during earlier times, certainly not during the times of VaLLalar.†But they are emerging today.†They make possible explanations which do NOT†require reference to God.†Inside man himself is packed astounding†complexity.†That individual complexity†exists not in isolation but in interaction with the environment, which in turn adds further complexity.†

It is a complexity that is showing up as God is being pushed back by science.†††

So VaLLalar's anguish seems to be a consequence†of the†'conscious' and the 'unconscious' playing on the ground of his highly sensitive conscience.†It†is further immensely complicated by the fact that is NOT†a stand-alone ground but one that is located in a†field of†interactions with other physical and non-physical entities.†


#1323 - April 17, 2007 03:06 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang
Catholics & Protestants on Religious Exclusivism

The Catholic Church has 'officially' renounced religious exclusivity since the Vatican II in 1964. However this is still not seen on the ground and most catholics, including the clergy, appear unaware or disregard it.

The "Apostles Creed" is as close a statement of what the Christian believes in. It doesn't say that the non-believers are going to hell.

The Catholic Church has been quite clear on this issue (Second Vatican Council):

One of many documents to come out of the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council (often referred to as 'Vatican II') during the early to mid 1960s was the 'Dogmatic Constitution on the Church - Lumen Gentium'.

Chapter 1, sections 14 to 16 discuss salvation of Catholics and others. An "Assessment of this Council" reads:

"The non-Christian may not be blamed for his ignorance of Christ and his Church; salvation is open to him also, if he seeks God sincerely and if he follows the commands of his conscience, for through this means the Holy Ghost acts upon all men; this divine action is not confined within the limited boundaries of the visible Church."

It was discussed and decided by over 300 bishops and cardinals over four years. Papers were already building up for a decade prior to Vatican II. So its not a one man's decision.

In the year 2000, Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, -- now Pope Benedict XVI -- issued a document: Dominus Iesus on the unicity and salvific universality of Jesus Christ and the Church. It stated that:

"Salvation is possible to those who are not Roman Catholics or Eastern Orthodox. The prayers and rituals of other religions may help or hinder their believers. Some practices may prepare their membership to absorb the Gospel. However, those rituals which depend on superstitions or other errors... constitute an obstacle to salvation.

Members of other religions are 'gravely deficient' relative to members of the Church of Christ who already have 'the fullness of the means of salvation."

Benedict somewhat further qualifies Vatican II without changing the basic premise. In practise however all non-Christians are viewed as 'gravely deficient', as the Vatican II decisions have not permeated, or not allowed to permeate, to the ground level, to the faithful and the masses. Of course the man on the ground, even pastors, may be ignorant of papal dealings or appear ignorant, or simply do not care, sauced as they are over the theology. They carry on with their merry lives thinking they are actually doing something good.

A point I was subtly suggesting is that John Paul went against Vatican II, making him a schismatic, an apostate? Vatican II was in the aftermath of WW2, where the church realised the colossal greiviousness of its teachings, hence its revision on exclusivism in 1964.

Theology itself may be nice and rosy. But whether it is nazi racism, slavery, colonialism, ethnic cleansing of indigeneous communities - all of this can be traced back to beliefs in original sin and need for a savior.

The Protestants' views are more varied from fundamentalists to liberals. Still that has not blunted their dogged aspirations of proselytism. On the contrary, John Paul unabashedly called for a rich harvest of souls, in effect reversing the ecclesiastical decisions of Vatican II with his issuance of a policy statement upon coming into office, 'The Mission of the Redeemer', which is a point-blank call for conversion by subterfuge! His erstwhile pupil, Ratzinger, who drafted the Redeemer document, continues the policy, now extended to the Muslim world with his harangue recollection of the words of the Byzantine emperor and calls for dialogue with the Muslim world, all with a view towards open conflation and conflict on Abrahamic theology. Vatican II is an admission that the Christian churches have been wrong for 2,000 years, a monumental error that cast havoc on humanity.

Hitler was not the cause of anti-Semitism. He like many before him was the end product of 2,000 years of virulent Christian history, finally culminating in the holocaust. The holocaust is the end result of the beliefs in 'original sin' and messiahs, for it divides people into believers and non believers, and unleashes unrestrained proselytism on pain of death. The pre-reformation Christians, and the Muslims till today have been faithful to this dogma. In mild forms it is imperialism and ethnic cleansing, and in extreme forms it is genocides and jihad.

Whereas now the Catholics and protestants have restyled proselytism into subtler forms. It includes interfaith 'dialogues' to inculturation - adoption of local customs, traditions, language and even rituals so as to appear indigenous and blend in, the target being the ultimate purpose of conversion by covert subterfuge. It has gone underground. Every smile, greetings, kind words, gift, praise, agreeableness, is all geared towards that ultimate objective - to wear down, followed by an invitation to participate in church festivals and activities. Hence the insistence on the word Allah for God, to reach out to the non believing masses in the language they understand best, using the infrastructural concepts already in place. It is policy driven, for market share!

The question to those of the non-Abrahamic faiths, who are 50% of humanity and the ascending powers today, as to 'why does it matter that Christians believe all Hindus and Buddhists will go to hell' is most apt. In fact we have a bigger example than the holocaust to prove this conclusion of what is in store - Islam. Or rather Mohammadanism.

Mohammadanism is the religion of the Hadiths and Sunnah, and sometimes includes the Quran as a cursory reference. The faithful are followers of the Prophet Mohammad, his life and acts. Synonyms include the Arab Religion, Wahabbi-ism and Deobandi-ism.

Islam, rather, Mohammadanism took the theology of Bible - "you will go to hell if you don't accept my god and his son" - and refined it further. It says "if you don't accept my god (Allah) and his messenger then not only will you go to hell, but I and my fellow religionists have a divine sanction, nay a command, to send you there right here and now". This is called jihad.

Hopefully this misguided rabid thinking which guided the followers of the Hadiths and the Sunnah, and the church itself for more than a millennium, and still does in a refined format, would come to an end with this last whoop on 9/11 which woke up the world.

That is wishful thinking of course over coffee and croissants on a lazy afternoon, for the raison d etaire of the Abrahamic faiths is evangelism at all cost. Else they might as well not exist, for it defeats their very basis of faith; the original sin and messiah - the two most destructive concepts conceived on earth! The genesis for their own destruction lies therein in that DNA.

"As for those who accuses us of proselytism, I have only a simple question to ask. If you are walking down the park and noticed the bridge has collapsed due to heavy rain, would you not call for help or warn others not to approach the bridge?"

Does it occur to you that others view this as patronising, presumptuous, and condescending, as if you know what is better? Does it occur to you that half of humanity with far more mature civilisations simply do not accept ideas such as original sin or the need for prophets and saviours and messiahs? This is so condescending to humanity and it is infuriating to be told that 'you need to be saved'. What asian civilisations have is teachers and saints, tens of thousands of them in an unbroken chain till today in all communities.

"When Jesus died, most of his disciples have fled with the leading disciple disowning Jesus thrice! "

That Judas betrayed is another lie foisted on the people and most gullibly bought the story. In my opinion he was the only one who understood Jesus and his teachings, the only one faithful, while the other eleven where hangers on. Its time to resurrect the honor of Judas.

The main point I'm making; that the catholic church has overturned and abandoned religious exclusivism. In other words, no need for a savior, no need to be saved, no need for a son of god, it was fine all along anyways. One can 'save' oneself, whatever that means. This preempts proselytisation! This is official church doctrine, and now, revised theology!

Now isn't this what we said in the beginning? This completely undermines islam, doesn't it? Christianity's first major theological blow to islam.


Agreed - they had flaws and sins committed as a result of those "fatwas" passed by politician/ warrior/king Popes.

It has to be borne in mind that the Papacy isn't a person - it's an institution, not a dictatorship (despite appearing to be so). The difference here is the fact that it has the humility to admit its mistakes, and review its opinions and interpretations - and it is an ongoing process of countless debates and academic research.

That they have declared that they do not have a monopoly on truth and the possibility of "extraordinary" salvation is one remarkable achievement that is almost unheard of in monotheistic theological circles.

By "extraordinary" salvation, it does not mean that the manifestations of God in all his forms is "unnecessary" - it only means that God can manifest in spirit, in the hearts of whosoever he choses - even he doesn't declare any allegiances to any school of thought.


[This message has been edited by Pathmarajah (edited January 10, 2008).]

#1324 - April 17, 2007 03:57 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang
On Moral Decay & Sexual Decadence

There appears to be much moral decay in society nowadays; from sexual decadence to corrupt practices to a lack of the fear of God.

There is a great deal of ethical and moral decay because of the willful oppression and subservience of the individual conscience to man made laws, especially religious laws. There cannot be any moral decay if the conscience is let free.

But there is no sexual decadence and never has been, ever.

Man is always subconsciously guided by his instinctive animal nature, imprinted in his subconscious mind, the biological blueprint embedded in the genes. This cannot be overcome or controlled or suppressed by man-made laws. The subconscious mind does not listen to the conscious mind or rationality, ethics, morals, etc. It overrules them all. The subconscious is guided by its own dna imprint, and above all, the overarching goal is the enriching of the gene pool and propagation of the species. Enlarging the gene pool supercedes any logic or religion.

People and religions fail to understand this, make rules and laws to control this tsunami, and always fail. Then call it sexual decadence. The mind is 99% subconscious and 1% conscious, and the conscious can never control the overwhelmingly forceful subconscious.

In my understanding, no one has committed any sexual sin, ever. They may have guilty of not upholding their commitments. They were naturally guided by their dna, with its higher mysterious purpose. Therefore one has to forgive any 'sexual slights' immediately. Thats why all religions stress on forgiveness as godliness.

One does not want to discriminate but his religion tells him to do so, and so he discriminates against his conscience. One does not want to abstain from sex, but his religion tells him to do so; he tries against his inner urgings to the contrary and eventually fails.

This is not a license for licentiousness. Go ahead and try, give your best shot. Unless your subconsciously tells you to do it, it will never happen. 'He' has to will it, thru your subconscious, for it to happen.

Just some thoughts.

[This message has been edited by Pathmarajah (edited April 17, 2007).]

#1325 - May 10, 2007 04:21 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
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Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
Gays & Transexuals

Allan & Barbara Pease on "Why Men don't listen and
women can't read maps". Here the authors say that research shows the
basic template for the body and brain of a human foetus is female in
structure...Six to eight weeks after conception, a male foetus (XY)
receives a massive dose of male hormones called androgens which first
forms the testes, and then a second dose to alter the brain from a
female format to a male configuration. If the male foetus does not
receive enough male hormones at the appropriate time, one of two
things may happen.

"Firstly, a baby boy may be born with a brain structure that is more
feminine than masculine, in other words, a boy who is most likely to
be gay by puberty. Secondly, a genetic boy may be born with a fully
functioning female brain and a set of male genitals. This person will
be transgender," say the Peases. The claims made by the authors are
supported at every turn by scientific facts, which make them quite

Rajaratnam Chandrasegaran

#1326 - May 30, 2007 02:19 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang
The Average Hindu Today

Is Christianity and Islam responsible for the rot within Hinduism?

I can't help but laugh when I hear of these mid-aged men in the US or India (that have no regard for their health though extol the values of Yoga, have no understanding of tolerance though cite the immense acceptance that Hinduism has built into its core principals that they never follow, and have no real compulsion to donate their time and energy to worthy causes though they they on and on about how Hinduism will die out without it) going out and setting up little conferences on Hindutva and sharing ideas of how India can purge itself of Islamic influences or how everyone else is stupid in the world because India had flying machines and atomic bombs in the 4 Millenia BC.

Also lets not be lost with terms like "faith", "religion" etc. Faith is the core of only the faith based religions. Hinduism is not primarily faith based. It is primarily "jnana" (gnosis) based. To give an example, a statement by Jesus Christ in the Bible "I and my father are one", arose from a personal experience and has several counterparts in Hindu Upanishads too. But in Christianity that claim is made exclusive to the point that Jesus Christ becomes the ONLY son of god capable of having that experience, and faith is needed to accept that. In contrast an identical experience by some Hindu sages, is immediately generalized to say that any one can have that experience, (and have the jnana (gnosis), no need for faith), therefore a general statement is made that "Self is God". Same experience by a sage or avatar can lead to different religious doctrines depending upon whether the religion emphasizes faith or gnosis.

Science can't claim that it is the sole depository of all truths. It can only claim that it is a depository of some falsifiable claims.

Please read up a little bit on Carl Popper's Falsifiability criterion for scientific validity. This criterion is central in seprating pseudo science from science and is one of the major priciples of the scientific method. Others being Occam's Razor etc.

And, it does say that scientific method can only disprove (or precisely speaking falsify). It can not prove a scientific claim to be true, it can only prove it to be false..

So all scientific statements are provisonally assumed to be true and are ever on the chopping block to be falsified, and when they are "proven" false, a thing which scientific method can actually do, they are thrown out or modified.

Religions may have some handle on those truths which are currently outside the scope of science. In hinduism the handle is provided by the practice of Yoga. You follow the way, you will see, is the claim.

diverse opinions from Bharat Rakshak

[This message has been edited by Pathmarajah (edited May 30, 2007).]

#1327 - May 30, 2007 02:29 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang

If I tell someone "Its ok, you'll be fine. As long as I am alive, you can count on me".

The person may think that I care but in actual fact, I've turned that person into a slave. Why?

I am indirectly telling that person: -
1. You are not capable.
2. The world out there will kill you, if you go alone
3. I am what you need
4. You need me
5. Without me, you will DIE
6. I'll give you food. You don't have to worry
7. You just have to listen to me, because I care for you.

If I really do care, I'll give affirmations, like these:_

1. The world may be a tough one but I BELIEVE you have what it takes to do it
2. You don't need anyone to survive. You will achieve great success on your own.
3. I'll do my best to share what I know but you will definitely achieve more than what I could do in my lifetime.

#1328 - May 30, 2007 02:47 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
Pathmarajah Offline

Registered: July 22, 2004
Posts: 375
Loc: Penang
The Hindu Concept of Time

The measurement of time in the West is restricted to a second at the lowest
level and a century at the highest level.However, ancient Vedic scholars had
defined time from a very minute part of a second to a large multiple of century.
"Surya Siddhanta" (499 CE) is an ancient Vedic text dealing with the astronomical
configurations of the zodiac.

Time in West is measured in the order of seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks,
fortnights (biweekly), months, years, decades and centuries. Though scientists
divide seconds into milli, micro or nano seconds, the nomenclature still
assumes a second as the basic unit.

As per the Surya Siddhanta, the smallest measurement of time is Truti, which is
equivalent to one 3,240,000th part of a second. The time taken to pin a padma
patra (lotus leaf) with a needle is called Truti.

60 such Trutis are equal to one Renuvu, which make it one 54,000th part of a
second. 60 Renuvus comprise one Lavamu, thereby, one Lavamu is a 900th part of a
second. 60 Lavamus make one Leekshakamu. Hence one Leekshakamu is one 15th of a
second. 60 Leekshakamus equal to one Pranamu, accordingly one Pranamu is 4
seconds long. It is also stated that one Pranamu is the time taken to enunciate
ten long syllables.

As per Surya siddhanta (from 10th verse), 6 Pranamus are equal to one
Vighadiya. One Vighadiya is 24 seconds long. 60 Vighadiyas make Ghadiya, which
therefore is equal to 24 minutes. In other words, one minute consists of 2.5
Vighadiyas whereas one hour has 2.5 Ghadiyas.

60 Ghadiyas are said to equal one Stellar day, technically called one
Nakshatra Ahoratram. 60 Ghadiyas of the Hindu systema re equal to 24 hours of
the Western system. 30 stellar days make one Nkshatra Masam (month).
A day is counted by Hindus from one sunrise to the next, while Westerners
treat the time between two consecutive midnights as one day. A month is defined
by Hindus in four different ways. One is stellar month, as described in the
first paragraph. Second kind is called Saavana month;The time between two
consecutive sunrises is considered as one Saavana day and 30 such days
constitute Saavana month. The third type of the month is Lunar month.The time
between two consecutive new moon days is called lunar month, and it consists of
30 lunar tithis. The fourth type of month is a solar month. The zodiac is
treated as a circle having 360 degrees. The time taken by the sun to travel 1
degree of this circular zodiac is called one solar day. 30 such solar days
combine to make one solar month. The zodiac is divided into 12 (Rasi) signs,
namely Mesha, Vrishaba... and so on. Each sign occupies 30 degrees. The sun's
movement thru' one Rasi (sign)is completed on one solar month which is also
referred to as one Sankramana. Thus Sun's passage thru' Mesha is called Mesha

A solar year consists of 12 solar months. One solar year is said to be equal
to one day of the Devatas or one Divine day. Thus 360 solar years are equal to
one Divine year. 12,000 Divine years form one Maha Yuga. Thus one Maha Yuga
contains 4,320,000 solar years. A Maha Yuga contains 4 yugas, namely Krita Yuga
(1,728,000 solar years), Treta Yuga (1,296,000 solar years), Dwapara Yuga
(864,000 solar years) and Kali Yuga (432,000 solar years) in that order. Each
yuga is again divided into 4 equal Padas (Quadrants).

71 Maha Yugas are collectively termed as a Manvantra, which thereby consists
of 306,720,000 solar years. After each Manvantra, it is said that there is a
Sandhi Kala of the duration of one Krita Yuga (1,728,000 solar years). It is
also stated that the entire earth is submerged under water during such a Sandhi

A Manvantra, along with its Sandhi Kala, is jointly considered as a unit
(308,448,000 solar years). 14 such units combine to form a Kalpa (4,318,272,000
solar years). At the beginning of each Kalpa is included an Adi Sandhi period,
again of the duration of one Krita Yuga (1,728,000 solar years). Thus one Kalpa
is equal to 4,320,000,000 (432 crores or 4.32 Billion) solar years, that is 1000
Maha Yugas.

One Kalpa is said to be half a day for Lord Brahma. Hence one day of Lord
Brahma is equal to 864 crore ( 8.64 Billion) solar years. The name of the
present Kalpa is Sweta Varaha. In the present Kalpa, six Manvantaras plus
Sandhis have been completed and the seventh Manvantara by name Vyvaswata
Manvantara is running. In this Manvantara, 27 Maha Yugas are over and we are in
the twentieth (28). In this 28th Maha Yuga, three Yugas are past and the fourth,
that is Kali Yuga's first quadrant started about 5005 years ago. This is the
reason why before commencing any puja, ritual or vrata (worship), we start
invoking the Gods, reminding ourselves of the time elapsed to date, by chanting
the Sankalpa thus.

Adya Brahmanah, Dwiteeya Parardhe, Sri Sweta Varaha Kalpe, Vyvaswata Manvantare,
Kali Yuge, Prathama Pade, Jambu Dweepe, Bharata varshe,..
and so on.

The author (Sri Rao) concludes:
I wish to impress upon the readers that in the Vedic system, the measurement of
time ranges from the smallest Truit (3,240,000th part of a second) to a Day of
Lord Brahma (8.64 Billion solar years). This detailed visualization of time is
unique to the Hindu system, unequalled by any other system in the world. I
salute to the intelligence of the ancient scholars of our country.

#1329 - May 30, 2007 02:52 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
webmaster Offline

Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
On Usage of Tamil in Defeating Foreign Religious Influences

The reason for spear heading Tamil literatures include the following; it's
the only tool which cannot be rivalled by Sanskrit etc., in terms of
antiquity and continuity, it's unique wealth of literature, magnificent
universalistic creations like Thirukkural, Thiru Arutpa, everything in it's
uninterrupted divine flow, and the list goes on.

unknown author

#1330 - June 20, 2007 12:26 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
webmaster Offline

Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
Agneya (or Agni) Purana

As per sacred history, Agni Purana was revealed to sage Vasishtha by the Vedic
God Agni. Hence it is also described as Agneya (from Agni).

In it may be found one list of the ten avataras of Vishnu, and details on each.
In the Matsya avatara, for example, Vishnu appears to Manu as a fish that
gradually grows in size, and He says, "I must punish those that are evil and
protect those that are good." He then informs Manu that there would be the grand
deluge a week later, and says a boat will come to save Manu. He instructs Manu
take the saptarishis (seven sages) on the boat as also seeds for grains." This
reminds one of the story of Noah's Ark in the Old Testament. Either such
stories spread from culture to culture, or there was indeed a global flooding at
one time, like the global warming that is threatening humanity now.

There is a retelling of the Ramayana and the Mahabharata in this purana.
Incidentally, other puranas do this also, often with minor variations. About
Buddha the Agni Purana says that it was Mah‚moha (the Great Deluder) that
incarnated as the son of Suddhodana. He created such illusions that the asuras
who till then had followed the Vedic path, and now abandoned it and became
Buddhists. It refers to Buddhist ceremonies as a pathway to naraka (the nether
world). This is an obvious reference to the spread of Buddhism within India, and
it shows how this was looked upon by Hindu thinkers.

Th Agni Purana describes Kali Yuga as one in which people are immoral,
cowardly, and materialistic. Unbelievers rule the world, it says, and they would
also become cannibals. Then, at last, Kalki would be born to Vishnuyasha, and he
would decimate all the infidels. After this, the era of righteousness (satya
yuga) will be established again. It is important to remember puranas are
essentially narrations of the received lore. This promised advent of Kali
reminds us of the Book of Revelation in the Bible.

The Purana says that Vishnu must be depicted as riding eight-armed Garuda and
He too must have eight arms, holding sword, mace, shield, discus, and conch
shell. The eighth hand is granting a boon. To his right are Lakshmi and
Sarasvati. Those who have seen Ravi Varma's painting of Vishnu may recognize the
Agni Purana inspiration in it.

The creation story in this work is very similar to what one finds in other
puranas: Brahm‚ and the Cosmic Egg. And it is said that the texts of the Vedas
emerged from Brahm‚'s body. Though Vishnu is described as the Lord of creation,
preservation, and destruction, this is still a purana of the Shaiva category.
There are references to the lingam which is to be made of the earth, iron,
jewels, gold, silver, bronze, or mercury. This reveals the knowledge of
metallurgical craftsmanship of the age.

The purana mentions sacred rivers like Narmada and the Ganga, as also places of
pilgrimage like Pushkara where Brahm‚ is said to reside, Kuruskhetra where
Vishnu comes periodically, and Prayaga where the gods are always present. Then
again, Shiva once told Parvati that he never leaves Varan‚si. The Agni Purana
says that this sacred city got its name because it is at the conjunction of two
holy rivers: Varana and Asi.

As per its sacred geography, there are seven dvÓpas (island regions) in the
world: Jambu, Plaksha, Shalmali, Kusha, Krouncha, Shaka and Pushkara., and they
are surrounded by seven seas: Lavana, Ikshu, Sura, Sarpih, Dadhi, Dugdha and

The Agni Purana is impressively encyclopedic in the sweep of the topics it
covers. These topics range from poetry and grammar to architecture, arts of war,
astrology, and more. Like all puranas, in this day and age, it is far more
interesting and worth reading as an ancient literary work than as scripture.

V. V. Raman
June 15, 2007

#1331 - June 20, 2007 12:29 PM Re: Miscellaneous Articles
webmaster Offline

Registered: February 07, 2010
Posts: 1030
Loc: KL
Bhagavata Purana

If there is one purana that stands above all else in the prestige it enjoys and
the impact it has had, it is Bhagavata Purana, also known as ShrÓmad Bh‚gavatam.
It is more cogent in its content than most other puranas. Many parts of it were
clearly inspired by the contents of Vishnu Purana. The purana exudes love for
the Divine in the incarnation of Lord Krishna: bhakti in the purest mode.
Besides being a composition of great spiritual significance, it. is also a work
of extraordinary beauty from a literary point of view.

The purana says that Vishnu had 24 incarnations, the first was as a Brahmin;
next was as var‚ha (boar) to save us from naraka. Then N‚rada came and preached
the worship of Vishnu. Next, there was the dual aspect: Nara and N‚r‚yana. The
incarnattion of Kapila came next, and he was followed by Datt‚treya. After this
came Svayambhuva Manu and Rishabha. Then, in answer to a prayer (pr‚rthana), the
Divine appeared as Prithu. After this, earth came to be known as PrithvÓ.

The purana narrates the deeds of Krishna: the fondness of Nanda's son Krishna
(Nanda-kum‚ra) for butter which he sometimes stole (navanÓta-chora), his
captivating the hearts of gopis (Gopi-manohara) in Vrindavan (vrind‚vana
saŮc‚ri) on the banks of the Yamuna, his lifting Mount Govardhana
(Govardana-giri-dh‚ri): all these have inspired devotional songs. [We will
return to this in talking about Skanda Purana which also mentions Krishna
enunciating the Bhagavad Gita.]

The purana is in the format of a dialogue between Shukadeva Rishi and King
Parikshit who had insulted a holy man. The latter's son cursed the king to die
from a snake-bite in a week. To atone for the sin the king listens to the
Bhagavata Purana

The concept of dharma is complex and varied in the Hindu tradition. Its range of
meanings includes duty, righteous conduct, and religion. The Bhagavata Purana
says that dharma is desireless worship of God - nishk‚ma bhakti, one might say -
reminding us of Krishna's nishk‚ma karma. Historians of Hindu culture have
pointed out that this vision of dharma, enunciated in this purana, was a
milestone in Hindu spiritual life.

The purana gives a list deities, prescribing who is to be worshiped for which
purpose: Praj‚pati for children, Aditi for food, Ashvins for longevity, Um‚ for
conjugal bliss, etc.

In the metaphysics of this purana, the Divine is pure consciousness, but it
created the physical universe through m‚y‚. Maya is a positive power for
Vaishnavas. For Advaitins it is deluding: the world is unreal and illusory,
like the feats of a magician.

The Bhagavatam refers to Tamil Srivaishnava mystic saints (now called Azhv‚rs),
which has led some scholars to suspect that it was probably authored by a South
Indian mystic. Also, from the fact that the great Ramanuja (12th century) makes
no reference to this quintessentially Vaishnava work, and from the fact that
Madhva (13th) century does refer to it, one is led to conclude that it the work
was published in the intervening period. One devout commentator declares that
ShrÓmad Bh‚gavatam mentions Sri Caitanya Mah‚prabhu as the avatara of Vishnu in
the Kali Yuga; but there really is no reference to this saintly soul in the
Bhagavata Purana. He was born only a few centuries later.

No matter who wrote it or when, the Bhavatava Purana has had as great an impact
on Hindu spiritual life like the Ramcharitramanas of Tulsi Das, especially in
Northern India, and among most South Indian Vaishnavas. To this day, this
inspiring work is recited by countless Vaishnavas and presented by rhapsodists
to audiences all over the world. Unlike other puranas which glorify Vishnu, the
central thrust of the Bhagavata Purana is that Krishna is the one who appears in
incarnations (KrishN‚stu Bhagav‚n Svayam).

V. V. Raman
June 18, 2007



> If there is one purana that stands above all else in the prestige it enjoys
and the impact it has had, it is Bhagavata Purana, also known as Shr”mad

> No matter who wrote it or when, the Bhavatava Purana has had as great an
impact on Hindu spiritual life like the Ramcharitramanas of Tulsi Das,
especially in Northern India, and among most South Indian Vaishnavas.

True. And with that impact India and Hinduism fell into decline.

Many would have read some parts of the SB or quotes from it. I read the
entire 30 volumes, and in the course of it dropping it many times on the floor
like hot potatoes. It is a hate document in fine language and glorifies varna.
It is the manu shastras in fundamental structure. Naturally I threw it in the
garbage along with the manushastras, as it is worse than the new testament or
quran. I am saying this to put in on record and let all Hindus know, and make
them stop being gullible.

As more and more puranas get written, the number of avatars keeps increasing.
From ten its now twenty four, and if we don't watch it, soon it will be fifty or
even a hundred, with jesus, mohamed all included in one big happy family. Know
for sure that our saints warned us of buddhists, jains and varnashramists in
whatever guise, even in the guise of shastra.

Hindus may feel they have to defend any shastra or at least be silent, more so
the vaishnavas. Let me remind the vaishnavas that the alvars seen from their
hymns would have wanted no part of the SB. Vaishnavism is brimming full and
complete with the divyaprabandam and vaishnava agamas and they don't need this
baggage, I mean garbage. There is more than enough of Vishnu, Narayana, Rama,
Krishna, Sita, Rukmini, Radha (not our warrier), Yasodha, Balarama, etc in the
vaishnava texts, thats its coming out of the ears.

We should not shy away from discussing these 'sensitive' issues, as most of us
are off the sectarian nonsense. This avatar thing has gone too far (everybody is
one now) and its time to put a stop to it. We have to look at each text, shastra
by shastra, and speak out. Some puranas may be kept, not as scripture but for
easy reading of history, geography, etc. As long as we are beholden to these
nonsensical texts we are not going anywhere. Scholars quoting or writing about
it would only serve to reinforce the text. We necessarily have to speak of it



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